Judges advised to reject rape defendants’ chosen pronouns

Long overdue. It should not gave taken this many years and so many bullied, ridiculed women for this staggeringly obvious ruling to be made. Every woman victim who has been 'corrected' in court deserves to be apologised to and compensated.

Where are the transactivists on this thread, screaming transphobia?

Not sure on all the dates but found this piece, from Fair Play for Women, about it (haven’t read yet, but busy!)
fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prison-policy-judicial-review-ruling-confirms-trans-rights-do-conflict-with-womens-rights/

I’m so sorry that you’ve been subjected to this. I have a very narcissistic dad who might have chosen trans as the route to humiliate and abuse my mother had his chosen brand of Christianity not already given him ample methods, motivations and justifications. So I have some familiarity with this type of man but in a different context. I hope you will find healing eventually and I am so glad that you physically got away. My mother continues to suffer my father’s abuse even in old age and there is nothing I can do about it. This has broken my heart.

My reference to the colonies for me is really those countries in the ‘Commonwealth’ which are particularly captured by trans ideology all the way through their political and civil institutions with very little resistance able to break through. That is New Zealand, Australia and Canada. It’s a play on the Handmaid’s Tale references to the ‘colonies’ where rebellious or infertile women are sent to languish. It’s that sense that women are languishing out here with few tools at our disposal to fight this that I suppose I am trying to convey.

The US feels like its own special case to us outside it, with the deeply divided partisan political situation. I would find that very difficult as I would be torn on so many conflicting positions between the two camps. Trump is not my cup of tea and yet… on gender the republicans are spot on. Thank goodness that you have at least one side of the political spectrum willing and able to expose the dangers and fallacies of trans ideology, even if it does come hand in hand with some other highly destructive ideas about women and our role in society. I continue to fear for the future of the Democratic Party and movement as a whole because they have been so susceptible to GI and other nefarious strains of identity politics.

Sorry for the long post but I really like thinking about how this thing manifests in different countries and across political movements. GC women of the world, unite! :)

Its the Equal Treatment Bench Book

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/ETBB-July-2024-May-2025-update.pdf

p195

I don't know if that was a joke or not. Are you talking about the US or any country that had a British flag flying at one point?

I'm in the US and if you were referring to us, that's hilarious.

Its been 9 years since my divorce from a TIM. I'm still unpacking all of it. Very often when telling about the physical abuse aspects I get people telling me to use female pronouns. It creates quite a different story and mental picture of two women with equal strength and with similar body height. Which could be why they insist on using "she".

And I just say this man SA'd me by deception for 6 years with his penis. I get to use whatever pronouns I want.

I hadn't heard about that one. That's terrible, isn't it, it's basically saying "in the eyes of the justice system, TIM are more important than women". Was that before or after the like of Karen White and Tiffany Scott went to prison?

That's amusing. Oz and NZ and Canada are totally captured. Canada has MAID too - which we are now taking on here. That won't end well, either.

There was a high court ruling several years ago (so pre the recent SC case) that found having TiMs in women’s prisons was bad for women but a proportionate means for a legitimate aim. Don’t know if that still stands in the light of the SC case.

Is there a link to the actual guidance?

Finally common sense and truth returns to the law courts. I will forever be bewildered as to how this situation ever arose.

About bloody time. I hope the crappy gaslighting BBC update their guidance too.

Yes, that seems slightly concerning to me - it suggests that legal people don't see the SC judgment as meaning absolutely no TIM in single sex spaces.

"The section on trans people was rewritten following the landmark Supreme Court ruling in April that the legal definition of a woman is based on biological sex and that the concept of sex is binary."

Thank you again For Women Scotland!

(I thought there was a Mumsnet User Name ForWomenScotland that I could tag but apparently not).

Another slap across the face with a wet kipper for TRAs claiming that the Supreme Court judgement was only about very, very few teeny-weeny things - and totally genocidal at the same time, of course.

Ah, it's working now. Can answer my own q: it looks like it is all 'judge discretion'. Very blurry line between treating someone as innocent until after judgement, whilst suspending their 'right' to preferred pronouns. But IANAL; maybe there are other areas in which the 'rights' (or perhaps social norms is a better term) are suspended for defendants?

It is up to the judge’s discretion whether to use a trans defendant’s preferred name, pronoun or gender and it must be based on ensuring a witness can best give evidence. It says: “A female rape victim may find it incomprehensible if the judge and others refer to her biologically-male attacker as ‘she’.”
Non-binary pronouns are “not a legally recognised social category” and judges “should exercise their discretion whether to use these non-standard pronouns”.

Wonder whether this would stretch to non-criminal, non-rape cases e.g. Beth Upton? Certainly very confusing to witnesses to refer to BU as she, given the premise of the tribunal.

It's not and it's one of the things that sex matters say that they'll take the Scottish government to crt over

I can't see the archived article for some reason.

If I have understood from the comments correctly, a judge should use bio pronouns for a (male) defendant accused of rape? What if they are cleared of the crime? Do they revert to preferred pronouns?

Excellent news about time 👏👏👏

This bit:
It makes clear that trans women must not be sent to female prisons, telling judges: “Presumption that trans women, including those with GRCs, with birth genitalia and/or any sexual-offence history should not be in the general women’s estate.”
is not great, though.

Despite that first sentence, it doesn’t make clear that TiMs must not be sent to female prisons. It seems to be fine with the practice of TiMs being kept in the female estate separately to the general population and it leaves a space for some TiMs who have had surgery to be placed with women. I know there aren’t many, but would have been much happier if it had said something like “Trans women, even those with GRCs who no longer have their birth genitalia must not be placed in the women’s estate.”

Good point. It can’t be, can it? It discriminates against other biological men in male prisons.

I hope there will be redress for the women previously forced to be further traumatised by the justice system in court.

Another positive step to celebrate 🥳

Hopefully the colonies follow suit soon.

Can we now expect to see trans prisoners in Scotland transferred to men's prisons now? The article said that they have a softer regime, but in light of the SC case, how can that be legal?

Thank god the ugly stupidity of forced pronouns has been rectified in the instance.

Any decent person has been disgusted by rape victims being further abused by the ‘justice’ system, when they are forced to pander to their attackers’ wish to be addressed as a woman.