Help me argue that What it Feels Like For a Girl doesn't prove terfs are wrong

Agree. It doesn't seem like there'd be much point, OP. If there's no middle ground at all to meet on then I doubt constructive conversations can happen.

Ooohh Aida’s back with their very familiar posting style. Transwomen are still men Aida

anyway OP as many posters have said on this board before me, you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into in the first place

if they think the solution to the traumatising childhood snd adolescence endured by Lees is a lifetime of medical treatment and painful surgery then theyre not the compassionate person they believe themselves to be. Why would anyone wish that on someone else?

I really wouldn’t bother trying

Who's MET?

Reports of the incident and its aftermath are rather different from your version of events. (And note there are gender neutral toilets available.) This is from The Times:
^^
In an email sent to Harris and Binning on Thursday afternoon, a senior staff member in the House of Commons wrote: “You noted that an individual, understood to be biologically male, had seemingly been directed to the female facilities … At this point you made it clear that you were uncomfortable, left the facilities, and reported the matter to members of my team.
^^
We acknowledge that it is likely the individual you complained about should have not been directed to the female facilities and we apologise for that.”

"singular incidents can happen" - we could say the same about transwomen using the bathrooms of their own sex - sure "singular incidents may happen". Why is it OK for women to be the victims of "singular incidents" - like Katie Dolatowski for example, but transwomen can't possibly face the singular incidents in the men's toilets?

Males are not a minority and women are allowed to say no to men.

Someone up thread mentioned an otherwise intelligent person, being in thrall to BeKind.

I give no quarter at all, any more. I just say “I disagree with your analysis there.” or “I don’t think that’s brave, it sounds like your neighbour has a cross dressing fetish which he wishes to have out in the open.” or “You’re not really their friend though, are you? You’re just using their distress to polish your own halo, by cheerleading them to cut off their genitals. No one needs that sort of friend.” or “Actually, I have stopped using preferred pronouns for people not here . I know it’s jarring, it feels very subversive to hear someone refuse to recite the catechism, doesn’t it?”

Someone mentioned criminality up the thread. Even if what you were saying was true, there is still the difficulty with the actual disparity in violent and sexual offences of trans identify male prisoners with compared to the rest of the male population.And that’s not based on a self selected sample. That’s based on all the relevant individuals.

I don’t think you can reasonably argue that What It Feels Like For A Girl proves or disproves anything unless you’ve seen it.

The same way you can’t argue an article you’ve never read says anything. Not justifiably anyway.

You’d have to just tell her you’re not watching it because based on what you know of it and your existing starting point, you know you can’t be convinced, and hope that holds enough water.

It probably won’t, but you can’t really comment on something you’ve not seen.

@AidaP
Which question? You asked 2 and I answered both of them. You’ve been asked multiple and dodged them all.

What do YOU got that proves her wrong?

You didn't see a transgender barrister being followed and harassed at parliament bathroom by 2 transphobic activists two week ago?

Could you please offer up some more compelling examples of the torture etc you mentioned up thread? The one example of the barrister in the HOP doesn’t help your case.

Yes I think as the friend read a few chapters of the book then OP could watch a couple of episodes and show willing

Yes. Although I think it’s a lot for OP to expect the woman to read a whole book and similar for the woman to suggest a whole TV series. It’s a lot of time to spend unless someone’s really committed. Probably best if they stick to shorter case studies or sound bites.

The fact is, humans cannot change sex and no one argues that they can. That is something that everyone agrees on.

So no matter how much you want to be 'a girl' or how you think it feels, a male cannot be a girl.

Women throughout the world are all different. We don't all feel the same, think the same or want the same things. Not all women are 'girlie' and not it's not 'every little girl's dream' to do xyz.

There is nothing that women have in common except their sex. That's it. It's the one thing that all women, across the globe, in all cultures and throughout all time have that makes them a member of the female sex.

Men cannot have that, have never had that and will never have it. It's that simple.

See how you just ignored a very clear position just because it disagrees with you? Reality does not matter, just what you want it to be. And this is what happens when you refuse to even acknowledge the fact that, as far as HoP goes, the law is not with you.

And you use that to justify straight harassment, which it would not even if the law was as you dream it to be. But well, guess if you see some people as less, it becomes easy.

You lot have fun reassuring each other and in not engaging in even shred of doubt.

Umm… the Houses of Parliament so apologised and not to the criminal. He definitely deserves to be reported. Arent barristers supposed to uphold the law. Not break it by invading spaces they don’t belong in.

Fair enough but OP needs to do her bit by watching some of the programme so she knows more about where her friend is coming from. Refusing to engage isn't going to lead to a worthwhile discussion. Better not to bother if OP only wants to see her side of it

The steward at the HOP steered the barrister away from the female lavs and apologised to the women. There’s a lot of confusion and many people have sought to add to that. But the law is now very clear - slowly all services will fall into line.

That man should not have been in the female facilities - not by law, not by reason, and not by anny sense of integrity or ethics.
If feminine presenting males are concerned about how other men will react to them in private spaces, that is an issue they need to raise the profile of and fight to make better. Imposing on females is not the answer for them. And suggesting it is women’s problem is patriarchal and misogynistic.

Incorrect, house of parliament made it clear that transgender people in there can continue to use bathrooms as they see fit, explaining that so far law on use of toilets is not as clear as some try to make it. You can read it as it was public through MP interpolation.

But again, if you don't want to see, you won't. This is the difference between seeking validation - find what you like and move on - and actual research where you double and triple check everything, including bits you like.

And even if the law was as you dream of, which so far it isn't, this is civil law, not criminal. That means you cannot then decide to take matters into your own hands and harass another person, that actually makes you a criminal, and yep, MET was notified of the incident and is investigating.

Well I read about that in the paper. In the UK that transwoman barrister is not permitted to use a female toilet. In fact by using that facility they would potentially be harassing women. We have the Equality Act in the UK which protects women on the basis of biological sex. It came after the 1975 Sex Discrimination Act and about 150 years worth of campaigning on women’s rights - even though women are 51% of the UK population. Majority/minority is relevant but not always the primary driver. For sure trans people should not be left without services but they don’t have automatic rights to those hard won by others.

Do you have any other better examples?

Oh you mean that bloke who broke the law by using women’s toilets and got called out on it? Are you endorsing criminal behaviour? Tut tut

You can’t reason with the misogynistic men who think male rights trump all, and the bootlicking women who agree with them.

Theyre in a discussion group together. If debating ideas is pompous the OP and the other person have both signed up to that! 🤣

You didn't see a transgender barrister being followed and harassed at parliament bathroom by 2 transphobic activists two week ago?

No one is as blind as the one who refuses to see... Or warped their views to the point where behaving like that is perfectly fine and acceptable because the victim is in minority you do not like.

It's a bit pompous of you to think that she should think the way you do anyway, she sounds like a very intelligent woman, I'm sure she's thought about it all. There's no need to try and change her mind

@AidaP

Obviously I would feel horrendous if I had harassed, tortured, marginalised, dehumanised, bullied and tormented anyone.

Part of the problem seems to come from me having different definitions of those words and also having lived through quite a sexist period where I was harassed, bullied & marginalised due to being a woman forging a path in a male dominated industry.

In the present day UK I don’t see trans people suffering huge detriments. Could you give me some examples of the sorts of problems you mean?

Or are you somewhere else in the world where trans people have no legal protections? Your intro and spelling suggest that your from abroad?