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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New York Times - How the Transgender Rights Movement Bet on the Supreme Court and Lost

64 replies

zanahoria · 21/06/2025 09:30

How the Transgender Rights Movement Bet on the Supreme Court and Lost

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/19/magazine/scotus-transgender-care-tennessee-skrmetti.html

https://archive.ph/MjbLL

very long read but well worth the time

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SionnachRuadh · 23/06/2025 23:06

I always say, to get a sense of the prehistory of trans, it's worth reading Christine Jorgensen's memoir. There's a way in which Jorgensen's reinvention of himself really struck a chord in the American psyche, and that as much as the experimental surgery is why he became a celebrity. There's a direct line that goes from Jorgensen to someone like Caitlyn Jenner.

But Jorgensen was only trying to reshape his own life. Strangio seems to always have had bigger ambitions to reshape reality.

HPFA · 23/06/2025 21:15

It's just utterly mad that people like Strangio thought they could simply rewrite reality to what they wanted it to be and demand the rest of us simply accept it.

As if that was never going to create any kickback.

Merrymouse · 23/06/2025 21:02

I think this is interesting:

"Romero cast the lawsuits over pediatric gender medicine as the logical next step in his organization’s much longer battle to defend personal freedom."

He is talking about the ACLU but, from a non-American's point of view, he might as well be a the head of NRA talking about the right to own a semi-automatic rifle.

The American concept of rights and the UK concept of rights are not the same thing.

It's also noticeable that there doesn't seem to be any a-political organisation questioning whether these treatments are a good idea.

L.W. began taking estrogen, to ensure that her body would “go through the changes that other girls’ bodies go through during puberty.”

Nobody seems to have either told L.W. that this is not possible, or even thought through what puberty means.

PermanentTemporary · 23/06/2025 12:35

Again I don’t think it’s true that Whittle achieved the GRA solo. This is too focused on sex as a cause of behaviour (ie too gendered) imo. That ignores the role of Christine Burns MBE (sorry might be OBE) and a very long line of activists doing things such as choosing the Goodwin case to take to the ECHR. That also wasn’t the first case to result in a defeat for the UK government. The Goodwin win was part of an incremental progress, substantially aided by the history of NHS provision of surgery to transsexuals (male and female) - the ECHR taking the view that if you are going to provide this surgery with the aim of people being visually identical to the opposite sex, it then makes no sense not to provide them with privacy in their new identity. TBH it’s all such a different worldview, and it’s hard not to see the change as both generational and showing something about national culture. Prof Whittle and their misty memories of enjoying Guide camp and interest in real ale and hobbyist computing, campaigning for absolute privacy and tbh the ability to hide your past, vs Strangio’s crazy sounding compulsion to separate physical reality from their life and to be super public about their identity as long as they are able to deny that such a thing as being female exists. I’d like to know what Strangio does in their spare time. Part of me hopes that they cultivate cacti, keep bees and play golf, and that eventually they will become more grounded and forgive whatever the past has done to them. But I fear they prefer gaming and performance art and anything that allows you to abandon reality.

SionnachRuadh · 23/06/2025 12:27

That's a very illuminating review. I didn't know that McBride's late partner was a transman, but of course that makes perfect sense.

I might grit my teeth and read the book some day. Though from the sound of it, there's an awful lot of "nobody noticed I was trans and then when I mentioned it everyone got up and clapped"

nauticant · 23/06/2025 11:58

McBride wrote a memoir in 2018 called Tomorrow Wiill Be Different.

Sarah Stuart gave it an uncharitable and long review a few years back:

the-lies-they-tell.org/2022/05/21/review-of-trans-memoir-by-sarah-mcbride/

fromorbit · 23/06/2025 10:06

Whittle was far more dangerous than Strangio, because Whittle was far more subtle and clever in helping getting the GRA through in 2004. The irony is I don't think average TA in the UK knows who Whittle is. If the TAs just had publicity hungry men they would have not got this far. Driven lesbians tend to get more things done. In retrospect we can see Whittle's agenda, but Strangio has done serious damage to the TA cause in the States through being more blatant and lack of ability. You don't attempt to subvert the Supreme Court and boast about it soon after.

Interestingly Strangio is now getting a lot of scapegoating from TAs in the States as how significant the loss was becomes clear and how badly their case was argued. Of course there was little chance of any victory, but the decision to take the case was real arrogance and has seriously undermined their plans long term.

Whittle in turn is a bit adrift in the current situation. Their pronouncements have become increasingly over the top as reality begins to assert itself in the UK. I think Whittle would have avoided such obvious losers as Maugham in previous decades.

The TAs in the US are really in trouble now with this court case loss and more prending along with the various government actions. They are starting to lose money and for a lot of them cash was a huge motivation.

Something we haven't discussed much is the closure of the Children's gender experimentation unit in Los Angeles California. Lots of kids are being saved.

https://abc7.com/post/childrens-hospital-los-angeles-closing-center-transgender-youth/16735999/

Children's Hospital Los Angeles closing its center for transgender youth

Children's Hospital Los Angeles says it's closing its Center for Transyouth Health and Development and Gender-Affirming Care surgical program.

https://abc7.com/post/childrens-hospital-los-angeles-closing-center-transgender-youth/16735999/

SionnachRuadh · 22/06/2025 22:20

Strangio is an odd one, that's for sure. She seems to have a deep hatred of all things female, starting with her own body. But, when you get past the facial hair, she's unmistakably female and even feminine.

I wonder if there's an alternate reality where Whittle and Strangio were just content to be lesbians. It would probably be a better reality than this one.

SidewaysOtter · 22/06/2025 22:03

@AmaryllisNightAndDay I'd been thinking the same thing over this morning. What is it with women like Strangio and Whittle that they are so willing to throw women's rights under the bus? Is it a "pick me" thing to show how 'male' they are? Is it some kind of internalised misogyny? Even if they don't want to be female, why the scorched earth policy for the rest of us?

The article made it very clear that Strangio was quite happy to force-team trans rights with women's reproductive rights and yet, when asked whether she'd actually asked women's groups about this, made it clear she didn't give a shit what anyone else thought as long as she achieved her aims.

WhatterySquash · 22/06/2025 18:25

SionnachRuadh · 22/06/2025 00:03

Funny thing about Strangio, I'd read interviews with her before but never actually heard her voice until her argument before the SC was broadcast.

Nobody who actually hears Strangio will be in any doubt that this is a woman, albeit one with a weird obsession with erasing women in law and public life.

Wow I’ve just checked it out and that’s so true! It’s not even just the voice - very feminine-coded phrasing and cadence.

SionnachRuadh · 22/06/2025 17:59

I was thinking something similar @AmaryllisNightAndDay

The Sarah McBride interview is not without interest, but McBride conforms to the HSTS pattern of not seeming to see or hear women, even while he wants to be one. His whole critique of the trans extremists is "we don't need to rethink our goals, but if we adopt a more moderate tone we might do better at bringing people with us".

Well, I think the ship has sailed on that one, but what I see in McBride is a kind of unthinking male chauvinism rather than active misogyny.

Strangio seems to me to be very much a Whittle type. The visceral contempt for women seems hard to understand until you know she's a biological woman, and then it all falls into place.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 22/06/2025 14:57

Excellent article from the NY Times, thank you for the link @zanahoria

Slight derail but learning that Chase Strangio is a transman clarifies some things for me. She reminds me of our own Stephen Whittle. I'm not sure sure how much she is sacrificing other women to the needs of transwomen as the price of her own acceptance as a "man", versus how much she is suffering from intense and unprocessed internalised misogyny and scorn for everything female or feminine (starting with her own body) Strangio's attitude to "gay white men" (in the Andrew Sullivan article) makes more sense as a transman because she must have experienced as much sexism as the rest of us and maybe that didn't stop altogether even after she's done her damndest to trans herself out of it. I was surprised that she seems to be same-sex attracted.

I don't want to over-generalise though, I know this isn't universal for transmen. Strangio and Whittle are a stark contrast to the transmen of e.g. the Gender Dysphoria Alliance.

nauticant · 22/06/2025 10:45

For anyone wanting to learn more about the Supreme Court judgment in an accessible way, I recommend this from LGB Alliance USA:

I've listened to a number podcasts and this is the most clear and helpful by some way.

SionnachRuadh · 22/06/2025 00:03

Funny thing about Strangio, I'd read interviews with her before but never actually heard her voice until her argument before the SC was broadcast.

Nobody who actually hears Strangio will be in any doubt that this is a woman, albeit one with a weird obsession with erasing women in law and public life.

Delphinium20 · 21/06/2025 22:56

zanahoria · 21/06/2025 15:20

I am guessing it has gone down the usual route of corporate sponsors and backing of other charities and organizations who have been captured so major appointments are made to suit them

Strangio is worse, he wants to ban books

Edited

FYI, Strangio is a woman.

SionnachRuadh · 21/06/2025 22:13

Interesting take on this from Andrew Sullivan, who doesn't hold back:

Strangio and [her] fellow nutters have also pushed the gay and lesbian rights movement onto thin political ice — and it’s now cracking beneath our feet. The queer radicals have lost an election, debates in 27 state legislatures, the Biden DOJ, <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/ltyhf/www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/02/26/americans-have-grown-more-supportive-of-restrictions-for-trans-people-in-recent-years/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">public opinion, the Supreme Court, and now — with this definitive piece and a solid podcast series, <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/ltyhf/substack.com/@sullydish/note/c-124300945" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Protocol — the New York Times. And next month, the most famous clinic in the US transing kids, run by Johanna Olson-Kennedy, will <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/ltyhf/benryan.substack.com/p/dr-johanna-olson-kennedys-pediatric" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">shutter. She was a key promoter of the suicide lie. The lawsuits are going to be brutal.

Strangio Things - by Andrew Sullivan - The Weekly Dish

Arran2024 · 21/06/2025 17:28

Its a great resource for understanding the US issues, which are not always the same as here. McBride and Levy are/were apparently extremely influential. Thank goodness we never had similar here.

PermanentTemporary · 21/06/2025 15:57

I don’t think that’s necessarily true @CinnamonCinnabar. Chase Strangio is genuinely a major force in the US picture, as is Joanna Olsen-Kennedy, and various other women. Strangio is clearly also a very strategically focused thinker, even if their strategy appears mad and disastrous to anyone outside their immediate circle.

SidewaysOtter · 21/06/2025 15:35

Strangio is worse, he wants to ban books

Strangio is a biological woman.

zanahoria · 21/06/2025 15:30

My impression of the article is that the writer is attempting to stay a little bit detached from the heated arguments of this debate, which is not an easy task. Overall, I think he has produced a very useful picture of where liberal America and the Democrats are at this moment. There does seem to be some attempt to row back from the position of unquestionably backing self ID

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CinnamonCinnabar · 21/06/2025 15:22

Very interesting dissection - thanks for posting the link.
It's clear that transactivism is hugely male dominated at the top - it's no surprise that a bunch of men don't care about women's rights

zanahoria · 21/06/2025 15:20

TempestTost · 21/06/2025 14:16

How did Romero end up in charge of the ACLU anyway? His approach seems such a departure from what they were in the past.

I am guessing it has gone down the usual route of corporate sponsors and backing of other charities and organizations who have been captured so major appointments are made to suit them

Strangio is worse, he wants to ban books

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SidewaysOtter · 21/06/2025 15:18

zanahoria · 21/06/2025 13:49

what he really meant

“I don’t run a peer-review journal. I make the best decisions for this organization on my own.”

What he really meant: "I don't care what anyone else wants, thinks or feels. Everyone else is just collateral damage in the rampage for trans privileges".

maltravers · 21/06/2025 14:19

Why would Romero be prioritising “the organisation” rather than the needs of stakeholders/affected people (women, gay people, GNC people)?

TempestTost · 21/06/2025 14:16

How did Romero end up in charge of the ACLU anyway? His approach seems such a departure from what they were in the past.