Why is this subforum so intent on removing voices that dont' agree?

Reported 😊

@JsmeLegie “Where it becomes an even bigger problem is when the worst offenders attempt to obfuscate their behaviour by claiming it is feminism. It isn't.”

Feminism is about campaigning for equal rights and equal treatment of female people. It is about fighting against male privilege in society. The clue is in the root of the word.

It’s not about fighting for inclusion of men in women’s spaces, or anywhere else they would like to be. It is about recognising female disadvantages that arise from our sexed bodies and how the world is built around the male as the default human, and demanding better treatment.

Suckling on the penis????

Unhinged male voices there. Bit confused about “suckling” vs “sucking” perhaps.
Wouldn’t expect a man to know what suckling means I guess.

Vile.

CuriousGeorge80 ·I know there are plenty of people on this board who engage on the topic with integrity, and I also know there are others who do not.
Sounds normal for any place where people discuss stuff.

.. it can sometimes be toxic and unpleasant
Ditto. Discussions occasionally get out of hand🙄

I choose not to engage much in the debate on the topic on mumsnet because it can sometimes be toxic and unpleasant.
Your choice, but declining to engage much with debates that 'might sometimes get toxic or unpleasant' eliminates an awful lot of interactions - Brexit must have been a nightmare, and then there's VAR, and pineapple on pizzas...

Seriously, though, I don't recognise the alleged 'toxicity' on Feminism: Sex and gender discussions. There is definitely a 'parti pris' i.e. the scientific fact that human sex is binary and immutable, and anybody who argues the contrary is going to be met with the same kind of reaction a flat-earther would get in the Royal Geographical Society - mostly polite, a lot of eye-rolling and some ill-tempered 'Oh FFS don't be ridiculous, how many times does science have to prove to ill-informed idiots that the earth is in fact an oblate spheroid?!'

I've noticed that it is often when asked to engage in reasonable debate based on verifiable facts from reliable sources that the 'You people are a hate-filled echo-chamber. There's no point in talking to you. I have better things to do' - the 'toxicity door-slam' as I call it - takes place.

I'm not on Reddit or any other SM, but I am told that if you seek toxicity, that's the place to look around, and Feminism: Sex and gender discussions is only in the ha'penny place in comparison

Can you link us to an example?

I think they do watch some threads in real time, presumably if they get a lot of reports about a poster or if there's something going on in real life that MNHQ know is going to get a load of comments and threads.

I report them! And they are always left to stand.

Because the mods are not fair in their application of the rules.

Some words and phrases get auto-deleted. Links to certain sites, for example, usually because they want money (e.g. crowdfunding).

@CuriousGeorge80 I am a qualified lawyer with in-depth experience of equality law.

Well then, surely you have something useful and informed to add to the discussions about trans rights? What trans rights do trans people not already have? Is there any way that they can gain those rights without taking rights away from some other group? Genuinely interested in your thoughts, but can't guarantee you won't get pushback about any proposals that would reduce women's rights.

“And as PP say, we dont have a designated answer-er of the TRA, so lots of people will challenge the comments by TRA.”

Ah yes, the accusation of ‘pile ons’ because some makes a comment and people respond to it. While at the same time we are told that there are only 6 of us, or ‘just small number’… The story changes depending on the accusation. Either there are a small number or it is the attack of the sock puppets (which is against MNHQ guidelines) piling on with distinct and unique answers that disagree with the poster.

either way, the regular posters are in the wrong.

Nobody is removed for disagreeing. We have a handful of people who pop up all the time telling us women can have penises, men can be lesbians and asking men to use the gents' is an act of fascist oppression and their posts still stand. You're allowed to talk utter balls, you're just not allowed to be abusive with it.

Ive seen posts deleted in seconds, so i think there was, at some point, threads monitored in real time. I dont know if that was mn policy or an enthusiastic mod?

The transuk sub on reddit has 62k members, and most of the threads have far more likes than actual comment.

So i suspect someone coming on here will just expect to make a comment, and generate lots of likes/dislike but no challenges.

And as PP say, we dont have an designated answer-er of the TRA, so lots of people will challenge the comments by TRA. Often before seeing others comments. Or reading the whole thread.

I much prefer this old style forum with light-touch moderation (responding to reports only, rather than constant watching). Any Reddit style changes would have such a negative effect. I hope it never happens.

The amount of times I have been reported because I used the term ‘male person’ is laughable. I say to them ‘report away’ and it must infuriate them because the posts don’t get deleted.

Lol.

I also have noticed over the years just how many times it is mentioned
that posters expect to be treated gently when they express their opinions. That they should be able to express their opinion and be very gently told they might have been mistaken gently and any negative comments they have made about posters should just be absorbed by the poster and not responded to. Because these few posters seem to consider themselves righteous and therefore deserving of the respect they demand but don’t give, because the other posters are worthy of those negative comments.

I have come to suspect this is due to Facebook style moderation of groups where a person mods a private group according to their own biases. And therefore any post perceived as negative is to be deleted but if it is a righteous poster, then that poster can fire away at negative remarks without censure.

It is a bizarre phenomenon when you pick it up. But it happens occasionally. It is like those who declare that if only you answered in a nicely worded post then I would have read it. But you weren’t nice so I didn’t bother reading it.

for whom?

Toxic to the "oh i can't handle any view that 100% matches my own"? Do you think that all the TRA subreddits are a non-toxic space for anyone who believes that you can't change sex?

If you see posts that go against the guidelines, report them.

Any sign of OP?

Just shit and run, eh?

I remember when all this were fields and we got deleted for using the word 'cult'. Also 'peak', or any discussion of hill climbing.

This poster talks about a 'cult', which is quite informative.

I'm guessing you're more used to Reddit because you talk about sub-forum, which is not a term used on Mumsnet. I'm also guessing you've never spent any time on any other part of Mumsnet. What you are describing is not behaviour you only see here, it's standard behaviour across the whole site.

Poster A says something obviously silly. Poster B replies saying as much. Posters C, D, E and F were all typing at the same time and reply in similar terms a few seconds later. The thread moves on very fast, but ten minutes in Poster G reads the OP and replies saying much the same as Posters B to F. Give it half an hour and Poster H will do the same thing. Ten years later Poster Z will do it too, even though the thread is by this time nearly 1000 posts long and everyone originally involved is long gone.

The original subject of the thread could be absolutely anything, e.g. 'Nobody really likes fruit, do they?', 'All Americans are thick', 'I'm going to leave my 13yo son on his own for a week while I go on holiday with my new boyfriend, that's OK, isn't it?', 'I do X with/for my child because I am a good responsible parent and I don't understand why other people do different things', 'Dogs are better than cats'.

Welcome to Mumsnet.

Yes, I find deleted posts frustrating. On the other hand, the moderation here does tend to encourage well constructed arguments and discourage abusive slanging matches. I very rarely report posts, but I do appreciate the discussions not usually descending completely into people shouting past each other.

This is a board which is dedicated to women's rights and feminism. Why in such a space would you think that what males want or the fight for male's sexual rights would be privileged in any special kind of way?

On reddit where pretty much every sub for women has been invaded and captured by males who choose to identify as women who then turn every space which was meant to support women into a space for trans hug boxing, women are frequently banned from their own subs for essentially speaking the truth.

You come on here then and break clear rules that are laid out for all to read and then you complain when you break them and have your posts removed? You are free to disagree here but you aren't entitled to any special privileges.