The socially-acceptable misogyny towards porn “stars”, such as Bonnie Blue

@Cerialkiller I think the same too - I don’t go around calling them names or commenting as such but yes I do judge - as you say I judge all the others involved in this squalid shitshow too

I do wonder at people who attack these women with names etc, though. Why the anger, where does that come from? All I see is an incredibly damaged woman in need of help. Those are honest questions, btw. Those who've called her a 'whore' and a 'slut', can you articulate why you are disgusted/angry?

I judge everyone involved. BB, the mother, the men, the team who filmed it and marketed it, the media who reported on it.

Everyone made a choice and took their cut and everyone is the worse for it.

Well, I don't at all agree that its 'self expression'. It's destructive self harm, and someone should make an intervention. But yes, agree that any sugar coating or tacit acceptance of it doesn't help - conversely, I doubt that calling these women names or deriding them does, either.

I did think of hearing how alcoholics have to 'bottom out' before they can begin to recover, although I don't know if that theory is universally accepted.

This.

Lots of socially negative behaviours are probably, to some extent, self harm.

I'm not convinced that removing stigma from the people engaging in the activities is in fact helpful. It's not helpful to society, but tbh I don't think it's helpful to the people doing it.

In my work I deal regularly with people who are addicts, and a lot engage in socially negative behaviours. There is a real push by some, including some working with them regularly, to "remove stigma" because these things are just a result of the addiction or are actually self harm which a lot of addiction is.

My observation is that does very little for the people who are addicted. They seem to have to go even farther before they reach a point where they feel the need to make choices, and it also seems to almost dehumanize them. Plus you end up with a community full of used needles, kids who can't play outside, businesses locked, and all the rest.

If this sexual behaviour is self harm, saying it's just self-expression is playing into that, imo.

Shame can be a useful emotion that prevents people from doing things that will harm them.

Edited as the trans rumour does appear to have been debunked, so far as any such rumours can be. Either way, she’s disgusting as are all the men using her.

Sorry but she is a whore! 😂 Would you be ok if your daughter did this?

Seeing how much my ability to compartmentalise has degraded with perimenopause, I feel sorry for what she'll remember when she gets older.

It also explains why mum is the pimp instead of taking part in the "fun".

And I agree with those who say this is not sex.

Nothing good can come out of this and the money earned will never repair the damage done.

This is self harm more than sex.

@TempestTost This nails what I came on to say. This is sheer depravity. No doubt certain groups of people have always behaved like this behind doors, but it's so open and readily available to see now and that can only do harm to our young people.

Boys are being given the message that it's normal to treat women like that, that they are really 'up for it', and it gives girls the message that there is no opt out clause.

Everyone these days (and yes I am old) get so tied up in not wanting to shame people, well in this case we bloody well should be shaming people. What's wrong with calling out terrible behaviour, not bending over backwards to defend these awful choices, ignoring the fact of how much harm they can do to totally innocent young people.

This is not about liking sex. It’s not that unusual for women to like sex that it requires a name. See also “sex positive” it’s just an excuse for people to be exhibitionist about it. This is more about the rise of instant free porn at the tap of a screen, no illusion of quality control anymore just getting the most attention in the loudest and most extreme ways, and what that translates to is this weird one-upmanship, the more men the better, not an actual female orgasm in sight. Women who like sex (ie most women) don’t have sex like this, this how women who like lots of money and attention have sex. BB is more misogynistic than most, she actually seems to hate other women quite passionately.

Are you really trying to claim that women in porn are just women who “like sex”?

consent is not something that can be purchased with money.

I judge them totally - no one is forcing them into this

Yes, I agree with this. If you buy in to the ideological claims of sex positivity, what they are doing should be just fine. But clearly it's not.

I don't like the slut shaming language. However, I am hesitant to say that it is wrong to say that some sexual behaviours can be a serious problem. We can all see that the men in these scenarios have beliefs and behaviours that are social negative and bad for women. But I think some women can also have beliefs and behaviours around sex that it is ok to look down on, because they are damaging, sexist, etc. It's not good for society to think this stuff is just ok.

Their choices damage other women, we should be able to point that out. Calling this “Slut shaming” Is just another label people use to try to prevent discussion (like “transphobia”). I don’t care if they like sex (although this seems to be something else). I do care if they encourage men to think women like to be abused. I think they are at fault (as are the seedy men involved).

It's not only men who fall into the first category though. Plenty of slut shaming comes from women.

BB has reportedly planned to be naked in a box in a theatre and men can come do what they want. I don't quite know how that will work.

We really are plumbing the depths of depravity here aren't we. At least the law now says you cannot consent to actual bodily harm (well done to the brilliant women behind We Can't Consent to This) so if anything like that happens I hope the men get the book thrown at them.

I'm not in BB's league. I was however slightly promiscuous when younger. I often wonder what I was doing and why. I recall feeling like I was ' special ' one time when I had ' fun' with 2 guys. I actually felt that they held me up as this really cool out there gal to be so open minded to this sexual experience. I really felt that sadly.

It seems like the girl Lily is somewhat like this. Seeking approval and validation from guys who say things like ' wow, you're such a good girl'. 🤮 So it's a double reward; the fame and fortune and the illusion that men think wow this girl is amazing.

BBlue actually scares me tbh. I receive her very differently. She does not feel on a level to many of us and looks dead behind the eyes. To have a mum behind this too tells me her mum is not right. So between them, pretty dangerous. Because BB can compartmentalise i would guess in return for the riches. And will therefore attract the most degrading men to perform the most degrading things and be live streamed. Then impressionable brains see it and think it's bloody normal.

BB has reportedly planned to be naked in a box in a theatre and men can come do what they want. I don't quite know how that will work. Nuts.

Exactly. Any woman who liked sex, real sex, not this compulsive, harmful, mercenary behaviour, would not be behaving like this.

It is the same old same old, women prostituting themselves, be it page three or hard core porn, until they do not have to anymore.

They are high up on the porn food chain i feel more sorry for the lower down, the trafficked and the like.

I always remember the prostitutes collective of Great Britain (i may have got their name wrong) getting annoyed with women who challenged them, saying things like you don't keep your husband satisfied, so its your fault.

I once admitted two prostitutes to a refuge temporarily as fleeing from a pimp.

They proceeded to try and pimp out other vulnerable residents, so were chucked out straight away.

I have zero sympathy for this group of women, who perpetuate the monetisation of women's bodies.

It's so clear these women are damaged you can see the trauma from outer space just reading a headline.

In the words of Gisele Pelicot: Shame must change sides.

I think they are both deeply damaged, playing out their damage and damaging other women’s lives by perpetuating deep misogyny but that is very common for damaged people to do.

Unfortunately we seem to be in an era of two idiotic and damaging ideologies around sex. One being the "don't kink shame, sex work is work" crap and the other being the old fashioned misogynistic BS that women who like sex are sluts.

I actually think Bonnie Blue has, in some ways, been helpful in shining a light on the flaws in the "don't kink shame" ideology. Anyone with half a brain can see that what's happening here is wrong and yet the sex positive people have no way of articulating it.

I find it so frustrating how few people can get their heads around the idea that sexual empowerment for women means a) actually enjoying it and b) not making themselves vulnerable while doing it.