My DD hates that I’m a TERF!

Love this - and yes, that is exactly what this amounts to.

I do fervently hope though, that the ‘next’ generation of teenagers and young adults won’t be as entrenched in all the trans ideology. The tide is slowly turning and a complete reset may come about.

Stupidly optimistic, I know, but fingers, toes and eyes crossed!

@TheLizardQueen not as extreme as your DD but my DS thought I was out of order for saying there was a sexual/fetish motivation to some men transitioning.

and then one of his teenage friends transitioned. And starting putting in their group chat about how his little skirts made him feel sexy etc.

we were discussing trans issues one evening and he thought I was being too black and white. I said “do you want X in a changing room with your sister?” Boom, argument won.

operation “let them speak” do our work for us again

I think you should list him first; then cut off the wifi when he's sold. Hard to accept a bid without internet.

Sensible parenting for the modern era! 😃

I’ve literally brainwashed my teen son by repeating to him that you can not change your sex and above all women need their own spaces.
Up to now, he’s in full agreement, even though he thinks I’m a complete dinosaur who lived in black and white days.

We do have opposing opinions on many other subjects and both enjoy a good debate, while respecting each other’s views.

I have always heavily encouraged him to have critical thinking skills and to hold to his own opinions, but this is a hill I will die on and he knows it.

He knows if he doesn’t agree with me on this, then I’ll cut off the Wi-Fi and then put him on e-bay 😁

Absolutely. There is no convincing response to the simple question, where were all the 'trans kids' when we were little, and before?

And why are such a huge proportion of Hollywood kids/celebrity's children identifying as 'trans', whereas it's virtually unheard of in ordinary areas?

So where is your evidence to the contrary? Where were all these girls in the 80s and 90s?

And why are there now vast numbers of these girls in areas like Brighton and almost none in our rural area?

I would put some reliance on fashion, OP. It’s been the big fashion for a number of years, people have already started to get bored with it. Boredom is much more toxic to cults than outrage and opposition.
Stay calm if you can. Don’t rise to the bait. Just shrug and say ‘yes, of course dear, of course, everyone is queer now, it’s good to be part of the majority on this’.

@Delphin It’s been very noticeable this week. GCSEs coming to an end might have given some people more time on their hands.

@SternJoyousBee
"utter pish. Is there a shift system working this week on MN. "

Not entirely unlikely. Listened to a podcast (in German) a while ago where someone investigated an attack by a right wing group on Wikipedia.de in the 2000s, where a group of 30 people or so rode sustained attacks, by using sockpuppets, changing articles, starting edit wars then withdraw (and return when everything had quieted down), Sealioning, etc., we've seen the techniques. The techniques are not new, it's just always a new group thinking they have found the philosopher's stone, and that they won't be found out.

If a significant proportion of young girls have always been trans, why are these girls of the 80s/90s not now coming out in the same numbers as middle aged women?

The explosion in trans identification in the last 10 years has been concentrated in two groups. Young girls (often gay and/or ND). And middle age men.

Does it not occur to anyone with a brain that these groups are not motivated by the same things? 🤔

I was there with my two dds in their teens. They are now early 20s and I suspect have a more nuanced view ("pregnant people" after the Dobbs decision drove them crazy)

After one awful TWAW argument (in which DH thought I was a bigoted dinosaur I'm sure) I simply stopped talking about it at all. If it came up I said to them that I had a different belief/opinion and I expected them to respect that so could we please not discuss. It worked out ok.

No. And the word here is crybully. You literally came onto this thread, said something nasty about a poster and then cried bully when other posters called you up on it. I suggest you go take a long hard look in the mirror.

@TheLizardQueen having been in your position (unless your daughter herself wants to transition), I think a few more years and life experience might change her mind. In the meantime, stand your ground, don't tolerate any abuse, and both sides respect each other's arguments (even if you don't believe in her arguments).

I don't care if that sounds patronising to your daughter (could we use the term "matronising" instead?!?) because I do think that more real life exposure once they leave school broadens perspecitves.

I'm paraphrasing another poster on another FWR thread, who said that just because one woman is OK with giving up her rights (and is ok with men in women's spaces), my rights are not transferable and I don't have to accept that. The other poster said it more succinctly, but I hope I get her point across..

It's true.

They are the same girls who used to self harm by starving themselves or cutting themselves.

What a ridiculous assertion.

her argument is that if a man is going to do that they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it, they’ll do it anyway

A man who doesn't claim to be a woman can't walk unchallenged into a nudist spa or supervise a Girl Guides residential, won't be given a room in a women's domestic violence refuge, doesn't get transferred to a women's prison or placed as a patient in a women's psychiatric ward.

Of course, but the point is that by banning all male people from women's spaces, we are eliminating all the innocent reasons why they might be in there. So we know that he shouldn't be in there, that there is no innocent explanation for his presence, and we do not have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Because, very often, sexual assaults occur during the period of time in which we are giving a man the benefit of the doubt.

I was told the other day by an academic that even a weak conclusion was academically sound on another thread. I had pointed out the researchers themselves wrote that it was limited (it was that oft posted brain scan study) and that just because they didn't control for sexual attraction and that the results really only showed a weak skew, that saying that male brains were 'like' (my paraphrasing) female brains was valid.

I am afraid I lost great respect for academia that day.

"What are rebelling against, Johnny?"

"What have you got?"

I do think that toilets - while most frequently brought up - can be the hardest to understand if you’re a confident healthy late teenager without a history of SA, or particular religious needs.

If she wants to talk then ask her what she thinks about other scenarios - prisons, hospitals, communal showers….. As MissScarlet says, a brief introduction to Karen White and Katie Dolatowski can be illuminating, along with a consideration of why it is that we ask men to stay out of female single-sex spaces when most of them mean us no harm. At her age, I would have been fine with everywhere being mixed sex. Once you been using the toilet with a buggy jammed in the door, not so much! So some of it is just age/experience related. To misquote Dumbledore, it’s unreasonable to expect young people to know what it’s like to be old….

It is really frustrating! I think I’d be trying hard to understand her pov, but trying to (gently) get her to engage more critically, looking for logical arguments and evidence. Certainly don’t let it take over your relationship though! 💐