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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reflections on Trans Arguments

885 replies

LimeFinch · 18/06/2025 16:17

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
BackToLurk · 18/06/2025 16:52

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist

Where to start. No one says all 'trans people' are extremist, but that doesn't mean that transgender extremism doesn't exist. Unless you're suggesting that acknowledging the existence of, say, Islamic extremism (eg the Taliban) meant all Muslims are extremists, which would be quite a position to take.

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten.

This is bollocks

No trans woman claims to be biologically female,

Sure...

Anyway, it's lovely you've taken the time out from bullying bunnies or clubbing foxes or flogging hormones to ND young people or whatever it is you get up to when you're not here. Enjoy the sunshine

Reflections on Trans Arguments
GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 18/06/2025 16:52

@TwoLoonsAndASprout

LIKE THIS

Or as the OP would probably say

Leyek HtiS

sıɥʇ ǝʞıן uǝʌǝ ɹO

Boiledbeetle · 18/06/2025 16:51

Ha
Ha
Ha
Ha
Ha

I Needed a good laugh!

Devilsmommy · 18/06/2025 16:51

Fucking hell 🙄 trans women aren't women and never will be no matter how many bullshit arguments you want to mansplain to us silly real women

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 18/06/2025 16:51

ninjahamster · 18/06/2025 16:28

You are brave posting this! FWIW I agree with the points you make.

It’s not worth anything to be honest.

NImumconfused · 18/06/2025 16:50

That is the most patronising load of bollocks I've seen on here in a long time!

No danger of you being deleted and your account suspended for this thread OP, we're perfectly happy to leave such a diatribe of evidence-free tosh standing so people can see how weak all your arguments actually are. Virtually every point in there can easily proven to be wrong.

LittleBitofBread · 18/06/2025 16:50

Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 18/06/2025 16:42

And Emily “I’m biological and a woman so therefore a biological woman” Bridges.

I thought the fragrant Dr Upton said that?
Maybe they both said it...

mumda · 18/06/2025 16:50

Trollsplaining?

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 18/06/2025 16:48

I would, but I’m going for a swim in the sea. People can’t change sex. Sex is binary and immutable.

HTH.

Coatsoff42 · 18/06/2025 16:48

I think this needs a diagram.

NewBinBag · 18/06/2025 16:47

Aaaand off they plop.

Never to be seen again.

Shame because I was very nearly converted by the objective arguments presented.

tripleginandtonic · 18/06/2025 16:46

Greyskybluesky · 18/06/2025 16:41

Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women.

The racism is never far away.
Black women are not a "type" of woman.

This.

AltitudeCheck · 18/06/2025 16:45

Anybody can be Trans in an Instant!

This is the case though, there's no requirement for someone to be on a medical or surgical pathway to be able to claim to be trans. In some cases it is as immediate as a middle aged man suddenly coming out with 'feels' and heels.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses
Didn't the supreme court just clarify this?

Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 18/06/2025 16:44

greencartbluecart · 18/06/2025 16:43

As a reasonable human being … ah the flattery argument

The assumptions are offensive. I actually don’t identify as reasonable.

AnSolas · 18/06/2025 16:44

@LimeFinch 👏👏👏

  • *you are ever so very very clever can you educate us all on what makes clownfish so special? 🤷‍♀️
PigFan · 18/06/2025 16:44

No.

Nousernamesleftatall · 18/06/2025 16:43

Transwomen are men.
You have to be a man to be transwomen. Women can’t be transwomen.
Cis is made up nonsense. If you must label us ‘real women’ will do but I resent that too.

Therr are males and females. Gender is made up bollocks. Citing Amnesty who have no credibility and calling people right wing is not the gotcha moment you think. I can’t people we keep having to say this over and over but here we are. There is nothing that you can say to convince me ever to deny biological reality.

You really think women who carried and birthed children will ever fall for this nonsense?

greencartbluecart · 18/06/2025 16:43

As a reasonable human being … ah the flattery argument

IDareSay · 18/06/2025 16:43

Ooh a drive by Gish gallop! Easter Biscuit

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 18/06/2025 16:42

Just so you know, you can't change most of your phenotype either. Men and women develop along different pathways from birth onwards. OK, the pathways don't affect everything, both sexes get two legs and 10 fingers and problem-soving and communication skills (etc) whichever sex we are, but the things that sex does affect, it really affects. Like skeletal strength and skull thickness and height etc. And you can change some of your appearence to look more like the other sex than it would naturally, but you can hardly change function at all. You can remove sexual and reproductive function of one sex but medicine can't replace them with the functions of the other sex.

So, attempts to change your phenotype to the other ssex are pretty futile. I mean it's up to you but it's a huge "don't bother" from me.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/06/2025 16:42

How do I do the bigly letters?

It’s not about you potatoes!

RowsOfFlowers · 18/06/2025 16:42

Ridiculous, and biased post that in itself is misinformation. Sharing article links won’t make your arguments correct.

Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 18/06/2025 16:42

ConsumedByCake · 18/06/2025 16:29

“No trans woman claims to be 100% biologically female … That’s another right-wing straw man argument”

Check out India Willoughby on X on 16 August 2022: “I’m 100% a biological woman and female. The fact the GC movement can’t handle this simple fact isn’t my problem. Jealous.”

And Emily “I’m biological and a woman so therefore a biological woman” Bridges.

Greyskybluesky · 18/06/2025 16:41

Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women.

The racism is never far away.
Black women are not a "type" of woman.

CassOle · 18/06/2025 16:40

Sorry OP, your arguments are weak and unconvincing.

Swipe left for the next trending thread