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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reflections on Trans Arguments

885 replies

LimeFinch · 18/06/2025 16:17

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/06/2025 17:54

Well im shocked I tell you that yhe OP hasn’t returned

Probably too busy telling everyone on Reddit how he told the ‘Karen’s’ on mumsnet how it is 🙄

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/06/2025 17:54

OuterSpaceCadet · 18/06/2025 17:47

i want the laugh react emoji and I want it now

Me too.
I love plop and runs who post a load of risible drivel and then scoot off back to the Reddit basement shouting "I told them, I really did" 😂

Well done to all the wims for so many informative and bigly responses 👏

KateShugakIsALegend · 18/06/2025 17:52

Translation:

"Dear readers, you are wrong. I will put you straight.

Here is a cheery-picked random selection of links to prove my point and show you how wrong you are. I am not interested in your perspectives, by the way, just on transmit here, not receive.

Phew! Job done."

Does this tone / approach often work for you @LimeFinch ?

GailBlancheViola · 18/06/2025 17:52

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/06/2025 17:44

“Reflections on Trans Arguments”

trans activist arguments are shite and unconvincing and misogynistic. Hope that meets the brief.

And homophobic, and racist.

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 18/06/2025 17:52

BeLemonNow · 18/06/2025 17:47

To be fair I only scanned the first three as I could feel my brain cells melting.

Bookmark this thread and come back and read the rest if you ever need a really good laugh.

UnWilly · 18/06/2025 17:52

Thanks OP, if only you had told us earlier, just think how much sooner and easier this could have all been resolved!

TheKeatingFive · 18/06/2025 17:51

ninjahamster · 18/06/2025 16:28

You are brave posting this! FWIW I agree with the points you make.

What you think men can become women?

I'm sorry your education was so lacking.

Igmum · 18/06/2025 17:50

I just wanted to say how nice it is to debate these important issues seriously, and with robust evidence well-expressed instead of the usual semi-literate and poorly reasoned drive-by scolds from people who simply don’t engage.

Wait, what?

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 18/06/2025 17:49

Just started reading this thread…not sure how its gonna go especially as

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult

is a complete and utter lie

krustykittens · 18/06/2025 17:48

"I am going to insult you and then convince you I am right by being as patronising as possible, while using arguments that have been proved over and over to be pure and utter bollocks."

Thanks for that, OP, I feel so educated now.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/06/2025 17:48

Well, OP, I don't even know where to start with that load of old cobblers.

OuterSpaceCadet · 18/06/2025 17:47

i want the laugh react emoji and I want it now

Helleofabore · 18/06/2025 17:47

Crikey.

This thread is going to be fun.

LittleBitofBread · 18/06/2025 17:47

lnks · 18/06/2025 17:43

They have updated their literature now but this is a screenshot of what it once said.

link to Spiked article about it: https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/09/04/candice-afghanistan/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Edited to say the screen shot didn’t attach so I’ll add below

Edited

Thank you. FFS. They used to be sensible, I'm sure.

BeLemonNow · 18/06/2025 17:47

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 18/06/2025 17:44

It's impossible to pick because because they are all total utter bollocks.

To be fair I only scanned the first three as I could feel my brain cells melting.

DialSquare · 18/06/2025 17:46

Brefugee · 18/06/2025 17:05

also @LimeFinch if you are going to try to be amusing get it right

Any fule knowe that!

The expression you are looking for is "as ane fule kno"

HTH

I was going to say I pity the fool. But I don’t.

Chichianti · 18/06/2025 17:46

Educating myself and actually knowing TW in real life is what peaked me.

I absolutely lol-ed at the no such thing as trans extremists 😂. 10 minutes on Twitter proves your links to be lies.

nutmeg7 · 18/06/2025 17:45

@LimeFinch” Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult”

This is nonsense. There are plenty of pro-trans activist posters here. Doesn’t mean everyone will agree with you, though, which might be a shock after Reddit and the like.

Mumsnet allows disagreement with gender ideology, and it also allows agreement with gender ideology, so I can see that you think you are being super brave running into the dragon’s den and doing a big plop of things we have already looked into, but no-one is going to cancel your account or take the thread down.

People might choose to argue with your methods and sources of evidence, or with your ideology, but that’s the worst that will happen.

lnks · 18/06/2025 17:45

This is the screenshot

Reflections on Trans Arguments
BackToLurk · 18/06/2025 17:45

BeLemonNow · 18/06/2025 17:40

What do people think is the most unbelievable complaint on here?

I'm voting for

"Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery."

Fancy trying to justify teen "trans" getting breasts removed because some teenage girls need breast reduction for i.e. back injuries.

Hate to break it to you OP but probably cisgender women get double mastectomies more often than trans men do on the NHS.

Edited

Fancy using US figures - where private 'cosmetic' surgery is far more common in younger women and girls - to make claims about NHS provision.

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 18/06/2025 17:44

BeLemonNow · 18/06/2025 17:40

What do people think is the most unbelievable complaint on here?

I'm voting for

"Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery."

Fancy trying to justify teen "trans" getting breasts removed because some teenage girls need breast reduction for i.e. back injuries.

Hate to break it to you OP but probably cisgender women get double mastectomies more often than trans men do on the NHS.

Edited

It's impossible to pick because because they are all total utter bollocks.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/06/2025 17:44

“Reflections on Trans Arguments”

trans activist arguments are shite and unconvincing and misogynistic. Hope that meets the brief.

5128gap · 18/06/2025 17:43

Not sure who your intended audience is, but embarrassingly poor parodies of the way you believe less well educated people in the UK express themselves land badly. No one in the UK says 'done' before a verb.

lnks · 18/06/2025 17:43

LittleBitofBread · 18/06/2025 17:01

Amnesty once described women in Afghanistan as being oppressed because they 'identify' as women.
This is jaw-dropping. Is there a source for it? (I'm not disbelieving you; would just love to be able to pull out this statement and its source should the occasion arise).

They have updated their literature now but this is a screenshot of what it once said.

link to Spiked article about it: https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/09/04/candice-afghanistan/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Edited to say the screen shot didn’t attach so I’ll add below

Where is the solidarity with Afghanistan’s women?

The Taliban’s medieval, misogynistic new laws deserve far more international outcry.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/09/04/candice-afghanistan/

lady69 · 18/06/2025 17:41

That’s a lot of words to say you’re talking shite OP. Run along back to Reddit and give your head a GOOD wobble; the grown ups here haven't got time for your pish.

Swipe left for the next trending thread