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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reflections on Trans Arguments

885 replies

LimeFinch · 18/06/2025 16:17

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
Nachoinseachthu · 19/06/2025 16:43

Do you at least acknowledge that there is a sound intellectual argument for gender sceptical views? This divide is not going to narrow without respectful, nuanced argument from both sides. I find your post repellently patronising and superior, and, from a GC viewpoint, linking to arguments made from within the self-referential world and captured institutions of transgenderism.

Do better. The world is bigger.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/06/2025 16:39

murasaki · 19/06/2025 16:28

Lechiffre was referring to Limey.

Apologies @lechiffre55 that’ll teach me to react without reading the whole thread!

TransMother · 19/06/2025 16:30

lechiffre55 · 19/06/2025 15:12

You forgot the girly pillowfight sleepovers and really swishy dresses. Not just swishy dresses but really, held up by giggling magic pixies flying around holding the hem, swishy dresses.
My preferred word for pouty tilty heads in this context is cockettish please.

Oh that's a blinder @lechiffre55 , think i might have to steal your "cockettish" 👏

Datun · 19/06/2025 16:29

Ha, have you only just noticed that? 99.9% of threads are anti trans. That is not feminism, if it was there would be a range of important subjects being discussed.

you have to wonder about people coming onto the sex and gender board to moan they're not talking about something else entirely

lechiffre55 · 19/06/2025 16:28

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/06/2025 16:25

What do you want an individual view point on?

That was directed at @LimeFinch
I'm just wondering why they needed to form a collective to make an account. It seems weird.

murasaki · 19/06/2025 16:28

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/06/2025 16:25

What do you want an individual view point on?

Lechiffre was referring to Limey.

Datun · 19/06/2025 16:26

It's quite simple, LimeFinch, just use the gents.

If you're not sure which one that is, ask your mum.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/06/2025 16:25

lechiffre55 · 19/06/2025 16:23

Are you not capable as individuals of making an argument so you need to clump together as a collective to achieve whatever your goal was?

What do you want an individual view point on?

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 19/06/2025 16:24

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/06/2025 16:20

I assume they are the gender Borg hence the we

I assume they is the gender Borg hence the we - probably

murasaki · 19/06/2025 16:24

Maybe it needs to be a collective to add up to a reasonable amount of functioning braincells. Not that I'm saying that worked.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 19/06/2025 16:24

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 13:51

Ha, have you only just noticed that? 99.9% of threads are anti trans. That is not feminism, if it was there would be a range of important subjects being discussed. I take comfort from the fact that it's the same tiny amount of posters with these views, repeated day in, day out. Therefore I cannot take it seriously. It's like a cult, they all just repeat the same things ad infinitum.

Edited

We repeat that men can’t be women because people can’t change sex. But thanks for the patronising scold, it’s a unique take, because we have absolutely never been scolded on here by people who struggle with facts and biology.

Waitwhat23 · 19/06/2025 16:24

Just a couple for Limey

Reflections on Trans Arguments
Reflections on Trans Arguments
Datun · 19/06/2025 16:24

lol, that was lime saying they had indeed stayed within guidelines, whilst swerving straight out of them 😁. Again.

Are those guidelines in the room with you now, lime?

lechiffre55 · 19/06/2025 16:23

Are you not capable as individuals of making an argument so you need to clump together as a collective to achieve whatever your goal was?

BackToLurk · 19/06/2025 16:23

Could it be King Charles? Is it the royal we?

WinterTrees · 19/06/2025 16:23

The royal we?

In for a penny, in for a pound - if you're identifying as a woman it might as well be the one in the top job.

lcakethereforeIam · 19/06/2025 16:23

Assimilation?

Season 3 Picard GIF by Paramount+
murasaki · 19/06/2025 16:22

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/06/2025 16:20

I assume they are the gender Borg hence the we

A bit rich from people who accuse GC posters of being about 6 in number with multiple usernames!

WitchyWitcherson · 19/06/2025 16:22

So you post a list of "evidence" (and insults), and don't bother reading the genuine rebuttals - then post to say "HA you don't want to reply to my points", rather than engaging in good faith argument with those who actually took the time to reply to your points (in spite of all the times we've had to do this in the past). Then say we're all an anti-trans cult.

BackToLurk · 19/06/2025 16:22

Waitwhat23 · 19/06/2025 16:17

Anyone remember the thread when there was clearly a cabal of idiots working together and they dropped the ball when they fucked up and replied with the wrong username.

That was a funny one!

I think I saw Cabal of Idiots at Brixton Academy

lechiffre55 · 19/06/2025 16:21

murasaki · 19/06/2025 16:18

Why 'we'? Care to explain that?

@LimeFinch
Yes. Why we? Who is we? A subreddit?
You knew what this particular forum on MN was, that why you chose it.
Did you have any purpose beyond trolling? Literally what was your purpose?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/06/2025 16:20

I assume they are the gender Borg hence the we

WitchyWitcherson · 19/06/2025 16:19

murasaki · 19/06/2025 16:18

Why 'we'? Care to explain that?

Neopronoun?

murasaki · 19/06/2025 16:18

Why 'we'? Care to explain that?

LimeFinch · 19/06/2025 16:17

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