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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reflections on Trans Arguments

885 replies

LimeFinch · 18/06/2025 16:17

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
DiamondThrone · 20/06/2025 08:39

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 23:11

Pathetic. Grow up

I am cut to the quick by your wit

Datun · 20/06/2025 08:36

IllustratedDictionaryOfTheDoldrums · 20/06/2025 07:17

Oh wow, OP actually came back. Didn't expect that.
@LimeFinch with regards your comment of:
Or, put another way, "I found all them long words and complicated statements tricky. Plus, there was am awful lot of links to read."
Don't worry, we get it. But take heart, the nice thing about education when you're an adult is you don't have to engage with it or admit you find it challenging. You can just ignore it.
I'm going to pass this back to you because I did actually read it and look at the links. They don't say what you say they did.
Could you tell me, for example, which link shows that puberty blockers are reversible and reduce suicide? None of the links given show that and I did read through them. In fact, some show the exact opposite of what you're arguing.
One of the reasons I did read through is because I am fascinated by the open misinformation peddled by the trans movement. I can only assume you're thinking we wouldn't read it properly.
I saw this on Facebook previously so I'm assuming you didnt read it yourself and just copied and pasted?

Edited

Yes, it was clearly Lime who "Found all them long words and complicated statements tricky."

So much so that he didn't bother to read them.

Thank you for taking one for the team.

Although I suspect Lime has been banned for twattishness. And if not, soon will be.

The feverishness with which some people try to stick it to women, is generally their undoing in terms of behaviour.

IllustratedDictionaryOfTheDoldrums · 20/06/2025 07:17

Oh wow, OP actually came back. Didn't expect that.
@LimeFinch with regards your comment of:
Or, put another way, "I found all them long words and complicated statements tricky. Plus, there was am awful lot of links to read."
Don't worry, we get it. But take heart, the nice thing about education when you're an adult is you don't have to engage with it or admit you find it challenging. You can just ignore it.
I'm going to pass this back to you because I did actually read it and look at the links. They don't say what you say they did.
Could you tell me, for example, which link shows that puberty blockers are reversible and reduce suicide? None of the links given show that and I did read through them. In fact, some show the exact opposite of what you're arguing.
One of the reasons I did read through is because I am fascinated by the open misinformation peddled by the trans movement. I can only assume you're thinking we wouldn't read it properly.
I saw this on Facebook previously so I'm assuming you didnt read it yourself and just copied and pasted?

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 20/06/2025 06:59

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 23:11

Pathetic. Grow up

😂😂

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 20/06/2025 06:58

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 22:29

And yet the regular posters on here continue to insult and demean people who don't agree with them 🤷

If only women would just do as they’re told eh? Cope.

Annoyedone · 20/06/2025 06:10

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 22:29

And yet the regular posters on here continue to insult and demean people who don't agree with them 🤷

Awwww bless. Did you not get the response you wanted? Oh dear. Maybe it was your tone. Have you tried using softer words and smiling more? #bekind innit?

TooSquaretobehip · 20/06/2025 04:00

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 13:51

Ha, have you only just noticed that? 99.9% of threads are anti trans. That is not feminism, if it was there would be a range of important subjects being discussed. I take comfort from the fact that it's the same tiny amount of posters with these views, repeated day in, day out. Therefore I cannot take it seriously. It's like a cult, they all just repeat the same things ad infinitum.

Edited

99.9% of threads are pro-women. Not 'anti trans'. Unless you are admitting to us what we all know; being pro-trans = anti-women.

Thankfully, as poll after poll after poll proves, we are the overwhelming majority. This is an 80-20 issue, and in some polls, a 90-10 issue. In our favour, in case you were deluded to believe in yours. So you and your anti-women and hateful misogynistic cult are the ever-decreasing tiny fringe minority.

BeLemonNow · 20/06/2025 00:05

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 22:55

Hypocritical is the word I was thinking of.

  1. It would only be hypocritical if it were me doing the opposite of what I was recommending in my post.

  2. You missed the "just" in my "not just insult" but engage in debate.

R.e. 2) Not my style but if I hypothetically said the OP has not read the article they are quoting and is therefore an idiot that would not be hypocritical of me.

Women don't have to be nice and smile all the time, you know, especially when presented with bullshit attempts to trample over our rights.

Of course if there are any posts on here that don't follow the Terms of Use and Talk Guidelines you are welcome to report them.

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 23:11

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 22:56

SO CUTTING!!! How will we ever revcover.

Pathetic. Grow up

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 22:56

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 22:55

Hypocritical is the word I was thinking of.

SO CUTTING!!! How will we ever revcover.

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 22:55

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 22:48

Oh noes! Are the ladies not lovely?

Hypocritical is the word I was thinking of.

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 22:48

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 22:29

And yet the regular posters on here continue to insult and demean people who don't agree with them 🤷

Oh noes! Are the ladies not lovely?

LostInCatsFur · 19/06/2025 22:29

BeLemonNow · 19/06/2025 19:48

I see the OP returned twice more this afternoon and had both posts deleted by Mumsnet.

I presume they ignored my suggestion to engage in actual arguments. Not just insult people who disagree with you.

I would not be surprised if the OP takes this as further evidence of the allegedly anti trans Mumsnet referenced in their original post.

And yet the regular posters on here continue to insult and demean people who don't agree with them 🤷

Grammarnut · 19/06/2025 22:26

Must go and have a look! Probably cheer me up.

Barbie222 · 19/06/2025 22:25

It’s an example of … transplaining!

but seriously - the misogyny and racism in your post - can you really not see it, @LimeFinch?

Datun · 19/06/2025 22:01

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 21:57

Exactly.

It is quite fun though, watching them thrashing as the tide recedes.

Oh yeah, totally

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 21:57

Datun · 19/06/2025 21:39

No doubt.

But I suspect they're on a final warning, so can take it any way they like.

Amazing how these twits who think they can out argue women on here, can't even manage a thread without falling at the first hurdle.

If making a personal attack is your only argument, then you don't have one.

Frankly, I don't think they're the slightest bit interested in the debate - or even an argument, for that matter. They just want to vent their spleen at women.

Exactly.

It is quite fun though, watching them thrashing as the tide recedes.

Datun · 19/06/2025 21:39

BeLemonNow · 19/06/2025 19:48

I see the OP returned twice more this afternoon and had both posts deleted by Mumsnet.

I presume they ignored my suggestion to engage in actual arguments. Not just insult people who disagree with you.

I would not be surprised if the OP takes this as further evidence of the allegedly anti trans Mumsnet referenced in their original post.

No doubt.

But I suspect they're on a final warning, so can take it any way they like.

Amazing how these twits who think they can out argue women on here, can't even manage a thread without falling at the first hurdle.

If making a personal attack is your only argument, then you don't have one.

Frankly, I don't think they're the slightest bit interested in the debate - or even an argument, for that matter. They just want to vent their spleen at women.

Ingenieur · 19/06/2025 20:43

Waitwhat23 · 19/06/2025 18:40

There has to be a website or hashtag along the lines of #batshitteryfoundonreddit

This is close enough

https://saidit.net/s/MeanwhileOnReddit/new/

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 19:57

BeLemonNow · 19/06/2025 19:48

I see the OP returned twice more this afternoon and had both posts deleted by Mumsnet.

I presume they ignored my suggestion to engage in actual arguments. Not just insult people who disagree with you.

I would not be surprised if the OP takes this as further evidence of the allegedly anti trans Mumsnet referenced in their original post.

Of course they will. But their world is changing. They are thrashing around now - their old accusations, insults and scolds don't seem to work.

Oh dear. Never mind.

BeLemonNow · 19/06/2025 19:48

BeLemonNow · 19/06/2025 13:56

Well at least the OP came back. I wasn't expecting that...

Drop off a load of links, invite the uneducated Karens to read them and fail to respond to any of their arguments.

Instead respond to anything they say as being slow and uneducated, therefore attacking the individual rather than the argument.

Unfortunately that's what many TRAs do, attack the individual who disagrees. Sometimes violently.

That's not education. Education requires critical thinking and the ability to engage in discussions.

I see the OP returned twice more this afternoon and had both posts deleted by Mumsnet.

I presume they ignored my suggestion to engage in actual arguments. Not just insult people who disagree with you.

I would not be surprised if the OP takes this as further evidence of the allegedly anti trans Mumsnet referenced in their original post.

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 19:43

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/06/2025 19:42

There was a MN arguing script on GitHub.

Bless them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/06/2025 19:42

potpourree · 19/06/2025 18:03

Ha, yeah!

Disingenuous as always!

There was a MN arguing script on GitHub.

AtoC · 19/06/2025 19:38

Waitwhat23 · 19/06/2025 18:40

There has to be a website or hashtag along the lines of #batshitteryfoundonreddit

And there is. Or, at least, an account on Twitter that goes by "Reddit Lies"

https://x.com/reddit_lies

It's not just about the whole transgender thing, but includes all sorts of batshittery found on reddit.

https://x.com/reddit_lies

Boiledbeetle · 19/06/2025 19:32

DiamondThrone · 19/06/2025 19:09

I have given @FlirtsWithRhinos a LIKE for this comment!

She can now tot it up with all her other LIKES, which after all is the important thing here!

Size of LIKES matters, right?

.

Reflections on Trans Arguments
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