Reflections on Trans Arguments

It's a real 'so what ' isn't it?

Like 'cis' kids being given puberty blockers for precocious puberty, so that makes it okto give them to kids who believe they are trans (they are given for a limited time, at a younger age and stopped ASAP for precocious puberty, after which the child will experience puberty. 'Puberty blocked' 'trans' teens will never go through puberty).

AFAIK, you can still breast feed after breast reduction surgery.

Not so if they've been lopped off entirely.

In relation to the point about more cisgender teens are getting breast reduction surgery than chest masculinisation surgery.

This is conflating two different issues, I’m failing to see the relevance. I’m sure many who require breast reduction surgery are for true physical health reasons!

This is awful!! She should’ve been able to get this on the NHS.

Similarly I suffer from hirutism from PCOS which causes excessive hair growth on my face and ingrown hairs all over my legs but GPs refuse to do anything about it as they say it’s cosmetic.. despite it really affecting my life and sometimes leading to infection which I’ve had to be on antibiotics for… had to pay out thousands privately to get treatment. Not right!!

Friend in her late 20s wanted a breast reduction on the NHS due to back pain. Not trans. Was refused it on the grounds that it was 'wasn't necessary' despite suffering considerably

She went private. It solved her back problems.

In relation to the point about more cisgender teens are getting breast reduction surgery than chest masculinisation surgery.

This is conflating two different issues, I’m failing to see the relevance. I’m sure many who require breast reduction surgery are for true physical health reasons!

Your bar for well reasoned is so low it is on the floor.

offering these well-reasoned arguments in this space is like throwing a sirloin steak into a zoo where all the animals are starving.

Maybe they meant well seasoned?

'well reasoned'

you are funny. yes we are truly starving for the sirloin of your well reasoned arguments

'well reasoned'

you are funny. yes we are truly starving for the sirloin of your well reasoned arguments

'well reasoned'

you are funny. yes we are truly starving for the sirloin of your well reasoned arguments

'well reasoned'

you are funny. yes we are truly starving for the sirloin of your well reasoned arguments

offering these well-reasoned arguments in this space is like throwing a sirloin steak into a zoo where all the animals are starving.

I've noticed a lot of general discourse about trans people that is based on misinformation, some of it dangerous, most of it born out of ignorance, so here's a handy reference to counter some of the claims I've seen.

Trans People are extremist! That's wot I done heard!
Transgender extremism doesn't exist - it's just a right-wing talking point used to discredit legitimate healthcare and equality efforts.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-un-view-trans-rights-much-needed-common-sense
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/11/hilary-cass-trans-children-review
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/02/gender-critical-beliefs-under-the-microscope

Puberty Blockers are Dangerous! My total lack of medical knowledge says so!
Puberty blockers are often lifesaving interventions. They're prescribed only after long assessments involving NHS gender clinics, parents, and specialists. They are fully reversible and shown to reduce the risk of suicide in young people with persistent gender dysphoria.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/tonic-psh-consultation-analysis-report.pdf
https://www.bmj.com/content/386/bmj.q1638.short
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/interim-service-specification-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-consultation-response
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-publication-final-report-cass-review

I Heard They're Changing Kids' Genitalia!
No people under 18 are getting genital surgery in the UK. NHS policy and private clinics alike restrict this to adults.
Indeed, more cisgender teens receive breast reduction surgery on the NHS than trans teens receive chest masculinisation surgery. The procedures follow similar approval processes, yet only one group is routinely scrutinised.
https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/breast-surgery-in-adolescents-cisgender-breast-reduction-versus-t
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/10/revealed-thousands-of-trans-surgeries-carried-out-by-nhs/

They're in Women's Sports! I read it on teh internets!
There are only a small number of openly trans athletes competing at a professional level in the world, and none are dominating their fields.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517
https://feeds.bbci.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900

But, but, but, Women's Sports! No men!
Sex-segregated sports were historically introduced to exclude women, not because men were being beaten. The idea that it was about fairness is a myth.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/13/how-the-fa-banned-womens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it
https://research.birmingham.ac.uk/en/publications/health-gender-and-inequality-in-sport-a-historical-perspective

Ok, but Trans-women are Stronger. That ain't Fair!
There is no consistent biological advantage for trans women in elite sport. Oestrogen therapy significantly reduces muscle mass, strength and performance over time. Regulations often require minimum hormone levels and transition periods before competing.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/15/865
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/59312313

Trans-Women are Men!!!!!! Any fule knowe that!
Identity is personal. “Man”, “woman”, “boy”, and “girl” are social roles - that’s gender. Not to be confused with biological sex - male and female. No trans woman claims to be biologically female, and no trans man claims to be biologically male. That’s another right-wing straw man argument.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/lgbtq-hubs/trans-hub/the-truth-about-trans

Trans History is Different to Women's History
The idea that trans women have a “separate history” to cis women echoes the same tactics once used to exclude Black women and disabled women from womanhood.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/socialsciencesbirmingham/2024/03/08/international-womens-day-trans-women-cannot-be-left-behind/
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/trans-and-disability-justice-how-are-our-struggles-linked
Tall women, Black women, trans women - these are all adjectives describing different types of women. Every woman’s experience of womanhood is unique. If you exclude trans women from being women, what condition are you using to define womanhood? There isn’t one necessary condition. So trans women cannot be excluded from womanhood on this basis.

Trans-Women are Men in Dresses! I read it in the Daily Mail!
Crossdressing is not the same as being trans. Many cis men crossdress and are not trans.
https://fiorry.co/glossary/crossdresser/

But Anybody can be Trans in an Instant! I'm scared!
The risk of coming out as trans due to internalised homophobia and sexism is a real thing but is not as common as many would have you believe. That’s why the NHS has a structured care pathway with long waiting times and assessments. No one can simply walk in and access hormones or surgery. Many people are left in limbo for years unless they are in crisis or suicidal.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/
https://transactual.org.uk/trans-lives-21/

Organisations are Convincing Kids They're Trans! Think of the Children!
No one is trying to “convince” people they’re trans. If you feel deep discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth, you might be trans - but that’s for you to explore, not for anyone else to decide. The queer community is generally very good at spotting people who are dealing with internalised issues - no one wants anyone to transition unless it’s truly needed. This whole “kids being convinced” thing is another empty scare story.
https://transactual.org.uk/healthcare-professionals/inclusive-healthcare/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/referral-pathway-for-children-and-young-peoples-gender-services-community-and-hospital-paediatric-services/

Now, I'm very aware of the MN reputation for shutting down the threads - and removing the accounts - of anyone who doesn't go along with the anti-trans-hate-cult, but for the short time this thread remains up it's worth taking some time to actually look at the links, to think about the status of trans-women in the current society, and consider how this judgement - and the subsequent interpretation of the same by those who are a little hard of thinking - might reflect on us as self-assumed rational, reasonable human beings.

Unless you think all parties are the same on all important issues, spoiling your vote could let someone lower down you acceptable list to get into power

ans whilst the spoilt votes are counted numerically there is no evidence they count in terms of making a difference

Abstaining from voting is not supporting the winner by default. Its a false argument and it smacks of blaming women for the position they have been placed in by people who are breaking the law; rather than blaming the law breakers for the consequences of their actions.

When I said I don't know what other posters have said: just because others have previously made similar points shouldn't imply that I should not post at all. If that's the case, why even keep the discussion board alive? Surely every point has already been made more than once in various ways? I was interested in the answer to the political question: if the mainstream progressive parties (lab/lib/greens) do not sufficiently address the issue, what do GC voters do? There are only three options: vote for the parties that let you down on this point but tick other boxes, vote for the opposition that may align on this point but don't tick the other boxes, or abstain and support the winner by default whoever it ends up being.
Simply bringing up this fact is not 'scolding', 'berating', 'blaming' or 'guilt-tripping'. That little GPT summary did not provide an answer either by the way, it just pointed out the same questions I've had. But all I've heard is 'don't tell us what to do', err... which I'm not. I'm pointing out the reality of the choices out there because I too am politically homeless for my own reasons and I was interested. No worries though, I'm not any more.