Is there any way to explain to people that being against TRA ideology doesn't make me right wing?

The first trans MP was a Tory.

I agree with Andrew Doyle who said this week that there's no such thing any more as "right wing" and "left wing". What we have now are two opposing factions as before, except now they are the liberals and the authoritarians. The "terf" side are the liberals.

https://deadwildroses.com/2019/10/07/handy-venn-diagrams-the-radical-feminist-position-on-gender/

I'd ask if they're American. If yes, I'd feel a bit sorry for them. If no, if point out that the whole world doesn't actually have to follow America's binary thinking on gender and that there is a third way (feminism) which rejects stereotypes; embraces difference; and acknowledges reality.

I'd point out that gender ideology and gender conservatism are both two sides of the same gender-loving coin. Both rely on regressive gender stereotypes which inherently opress women.

I'd point out that gender ideology is the marriage of capitalism and big pharma: selling identities and creating patients for life.

I'd point out that gender ideology is homophobic (trans the gay kids and force lesbians to do dick), abelist (trans the autistic kids) and misogynist (encourages straight men to disregard women's boundaries, keep transwomen's dicks intact but encourage mastectomies for transmen and NB afab).

I'd point out that one of the effects of the rapid spread of of this regressive, patriarchal neo religion has been to weaken and split the political left. As a socialist that bothers me deeply. Who stands to gain from a decimated left wing?

It has often been said on here that you can’t reason someone out of a position that they didn’t reason themselves into.

So @UnlockedXCX it really does depend on the person you are talking to. Were their opinions were formed after considering facts and coming to a position, or is it based on emotions and feelings and “be kind”. If the former, you have the chance of asking questions and presenting other data. If the latter then you have a much harder job and to be perfectly honest I’d agree to disagree and not discuss the topic. It is easier when you have the advantage of being post menopausal and having run out of fucks to give about what people think of me.

You could explain that you would fight alongside trans-identified people for any legitimate rights that they are being denied, but that you are not going to support the fetishists and misogynists. Remind them that the progressive Left had a brush with enabling paedophilia in the '70s and is prone to being a bit too naive about human nature sometimes. Explain that this doesn't make you right wing, just a sensible left-winger.

JKR is a supporter of the Labour Party, so is left leaning.

If someone is a supporter of JKR, then they’re left leaning.
If someone is against JKR, then they are right leaning.

Something like that 😂

No one has to ‘stick’ with Left or Right wing ideology/policies. That’s why we’ve been gifted independent thought.

It's another thought terminating cliché. Tedious. And ridiculous like the constant claims that organisations like FWS are receiving wads of shady, right wing funding - it's evident nonsense but repeated ad finitum by those happy to chant the mantras - as Lorna Slater found to her cost.

I'm not sure you will be able to plead reality to people who have jettisoned critical thinking to such an extent and particularily at this point when the whole edifice is falling down.

I'm also not going to bring up grooming gangs as I 100% believe it is a rightwing touchstone issue and that the moral panic is fuelled by racism and islamophobia.

@AuntiePushpa Why is it racist, right wing and/or islamophobic to say that those perpetuating the abuse were disproportionately Pakistani men?

I’d just say ‘Oh dear, you clearly don’t understand what you’re talking about. Come back to me when you’ve educated yourself on all the terms you’re using.’

I'm also not going to bring up grooming gangs as I 100% believe it is a rightwing touchstone issue and that the moral panic is fuelled by racism and islamophobia.

Do you think that Baroness Casey is racist and Islamophobic?

Me too. Many people I care about, respect and love believe TWAW.

I'm not going to cite the Morning Star or the official Communist Party as that isn't where I get my politics. I think they are generally considered socially conservative / illiberal on issues like this in any case. Supporting brexit was not a leftwing or neutral position for example.

I'm also not going to bring up grooming gangs as I 100% believe it is a rightwing touchstone issue and that the moral panic is fuelled by racism and islamophobia.

The best comparison i can think of is religion. I'm an atheist and find it hard to understand how intelligent sensible people have faith in supernatural gods and messiahs and prophets. But they do and they're not idiots. I don't lose all respect for them because of their faith.

To quote Julie Bindel - we are the left *.

Gender ideology is deeply conservative, homophobic and sexist, based purely on reifying horribly regressive stereotypes, not to mention it’s a massively bourgeoise capitalist luxury belief system (all that medico-surgical merch don’t come cheap).

(* 5.01 - )

There are so many right wing people nowadays!

It is the sexist, homophobic, conformist, aggressive mens activists who are bigots.
...
Bigot
noun
.
a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life (Cambridge dictionary)
.
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race (Collins)
...

I've seen this diagram posted on here before

Ask them what they think right wing means, and why it's so bad. If they say, "You're aligned with fascists, racists and bigots," you can point out that

a) not all right-wingers are fascists, racists or bigots

b) the Communist party believe in sex not gender

c) if they belive in gender ideology, they are aligned with people who believe that: rapists should be allowed in women's prisons; lesbians should be forced to accept males as sexual partners; women's sports should include males, whatever the unfairness or physical risks to the women; women should be forced to share changing rooms with males; women's rape crisis groups cannot exclude males.

If they agree with everything in c) then they're a lost cause.

Also see this meme, trite perhaps but also kind of true. Its laziness, so many don't think at all and just take what is put before them at face value. We all do that to some extent when young but as we grow we question more. The TRA's will be shocked to see that the gender critical do not "die out" but that their allies join our ranks as they gain perspective, experience and knowledge. As for older male TRA's, dubious individuals on all kinds of levels.

TRAs calling people right wing because they don't agree with them is on the level of children in the playground shouting, you stinky poo. Has no more credibility or basis than that.

But an easy initial retort might be to point out, I hold the same views on that as the Communist party so I don't see how I can be right wing. Let them do the arguing back from that.

The government's calling people wanting a public enquiry into the rape grooming gangs "right wing bigots, fascists" etc is quite helpful. Suddenly it turns out that there has been a cover up, that it was the right side of history to be concerned about vulnerable girls being sysytamically abused and raped while the organisations concerned fretted about being seen as racist so turned aay muttering about sluts .....

The same will happen with trans ideology as the scandal of children being groomed and gaslit emerges with organisations being exposed for adultifying children and assuming that they were able to consent to sterilisation, bodily mutilation and becoming a life long medical patient .

Take a look at this little thread where the abandonment of safeguarding children in care in favour of allowing trans organisations to sell their ideology to the most vulnerable of children in the country is detailed. It's horrifying -yet evidenced and true.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5356505-5356505-the-failure-of-social-work-to-safeguard-children-in-care

It does annoy me to see people always equate being gender critical as right wing, none of my politics are right wing and to my mind trans rights appear to be very much anti-woman and pro male sex rights over and above all. So essentially the rights of men, the oppressor class of women in conflict with the right of women. Transwomen aren't some poor misunderstood, oppressed kind of woman, they are an kind of entitled, appropriating, transgressing and violating man. Transwomen aren't against the patriarchy they are the colonising wing of it, if men can claim to be women and access women's spaces, sports and representation then the word woman, what it stands for and the rights that belong to that class become meaningless.

However most tra's and allies, don't want to know, they are too high on the idea that they are super cool and progressive and they will just see you as a pearl clutching old biddy who probably loves Trump and hates abortion and seeing anyone happy because you're so miserable and frigid. That is literally what they think, or that you are so stupid you have been brainwashed by the right wing, even though feminists have been talking and warning of this for decades well before the right latched on to it. Finally anyone who thinks Marx would have been anything but scathing of trans ideology hasn't the first clue about Marx, as most of them don't.

I think that those making this accusation are often talking about conservatism (traditional values) rather than right wing ideology (free markets and limited government controls). They usually position GC views as arising from sexist views about wanting to conserve traditional male and female roles and social norms. To this end, I tend to say that I embrace gender non conformity and think people should be free to love who they like etc.

I suggest you ask them if they think you are right wing or conservative, or both, and ask which elements of these ideologies they think you agree with. Some will not have a clue what you are saying and will shift to pivot to calling you a bigot. Those who do, are unlikely to be able to defend any overlap between GC views (seeking to dismantle gender as a construct) and conservatism, or the economy. They are unlikely to say they were wrong about you and can now see your GC views don’t align with right wing philosophy. They are likely to continue to avoid acknowledging or engaging with your substantive arguments as they would not be able to put up rational or coherent objections.

Present them with the views of the Communist Party?
Self ID is individualistic and anti-materialist, it's a not compatible with actual left wing thinking at all.

https://communistparty.org.uk/2025/04/18/joint-statement-on-the-uk-supreme-court-ruling-on-biological-sex-and-the-equality-act-2010/

This is from their statement on the Scottish Self ID bill:

"The Communist Party is the only political party with a coherent political analysis of sex and gender. Gender as an ideological construct should not be confused or conflated with the material reality of biological sex. Gender is the vehicle through which misogyny is enacted and normalised. Gender identity ideology is well- suited to the needs of the capitalist class, focusing as it does on individual as opposed to collective rights, enabling and supporting the super-exploitation of women.
For these reasons, the Communist Party rejects gender self-ID as the basis for sex- based entitlements in law to women’s single-sex rights, spaces and facilities. The Party will continue to oppose any proposed legislation – whether at Scottish, Welsh or British level – that seeks to enact such a provision.
We call for ‘sex’ as a protected characteristic under the 2010 Equality Act to be defined as ‘biological sex’.
At the same time, Communists are clear that efforts must continue to improve the resourcing of the current system for transgender people to access services and to transition legally, not just in Scotland but across Britain. Together with the defence and improvement of women’s sex-based services and facilities, this is part of the broader struggle for democratic rights, social justice and socialism"

This

Why do they suddenly think you've grown devil horns and become a completely different person? Do they not value your ability to reason and thing through problems? Do they have no underlying respect for you?

If the answer is no, they aren't your friends to begin with.

I generally go on the offensive, say I'm against gender ideology precisely because I'm progressive, and ask why they support a sexist and homophobic ideology.

Tell them the Morning Star recognises the two sex classes as a fundamental component of political class analysis, gender identity is a concept beloved of the bourgeoisie, and you are for Peace & Socialism ✌️ and a primitive (original) communist now.

Someone said once that why are people so willing to jump on you for this when you've otherwise held left wing views. Maybe they need to address the fact that it isn't right wing to believe in truth.

I generally find there is a cohort of people who equate any opinion they don't like as "right wing". Hamas aren't very nice? Right wing. Grooming gangs were disproportionately men of Pakistani origin? Right wing. No-one can change sex? RIGHT WING FASCIST BIGOT GAMMON!

There's very little point arguing with them, it's as pointless as playing chess with a pigeon: it knocks over all the pieces, shits everywhere and struts about like its won.