Gender clinic backs off after family successfully challenges direct contact with adult daughter

@allcatsaregrey can I ask how many people you asked to provide information please? The survey pdf suggests 12, is this what you stuck to? Thank you 🙏

@allcatsaregrey thank you for sharing your story. My daughter is 19 and autistic, gay but her instagram bio is He/they. I'm terrified of what she may do in the future. She knows I don't believe anyone can change sex and I've begged her to consider not doing anything life changing before she's 25 years old. Crossing everything that she changes get mind by then and can simply life as a gender non conforming lesbian.

@DrBlackbirdwhat uni are you at? PM me if you don’t want to say on the thread.

That is so depressing to hear. I was under the impression that maybe it was dying back a bit in schools and had hoped that the same might be the case in unis. But to be honest, i’m not particularly surprised and the NHS is no better. They are deeply affirming from what I can see and when you ask questions and suggest that as the science is not there to back it up, wouldn’t it be better to take a neutral approach, you are told it’s a very complex subject. No kidding! Trans young people offer education to medical professionals. Lets hope that the NHS is also listening to the detransitioners, young people who have had their lives ruined by hormones and surgery.

There’s precious little abatement of the gender affirming bekind and be your authentic self narrative as far as I can see. In fact, my university has ramped up the queer and trans pedagogy. It’s has if the SC judgement has went everyone off in a panic to reinforce that narrative lest the judgement leads to backsliding.

It’s particularly egregious when you simultaneously hear adult trans people/TRAs say that surgery and hormones shouldn’t be required for a person to be seen as trans. So, grown man in a dress with no medicalisation = how dare you say I’m not a woman; little boy in a dress = put him on a negatively life-altering medical pathway as soon as possible.

Well yes - the tiptoeing around blood pressure/pulse for the ADHD stimulant meds is huge and a big deal is made about them being “controlled drugs” etc. But in the grand scheme of things (non addictive and out of the system in a day) I can’t get my head around a profession that then has (or advocates for) far looser controls on irreversible treatments. I’d like to hear a psychologist or psychiatrist explain the thinking to me, because it doesn’t seem to stand up to any scrutiny

I think this difference is due to the "Demedicalisation" agenda (removal of psychiatric diagnostic "Gatekeeping") as part of the Affirmation Model with regard to "gender identity" and "trans".

What is there to test or assess if a professional believes the semi-mystical nonsense of gender identity being biologically determined, only knowable by the individual and that this knowledge is the outcome of introspection and self-discovery?

Diagnostic assessment, such as it is, only relates to "gender dysphoria", ie. distress at incongruence between gender identity and sexed body, societal expectations based on sex stereotypes, etc.

If a female says that she "knows" that she is a boy or man and is happy with that "realisation" then the reaction from such professionals is inevitably going to be, "Crack on! Let's pump you full of T, cut off your tits, whip out your womb, skin your arm and sew a flesh-sausage on your groin."

It is absolutely horrific and the day cannot come soon enough when this lunacy and these barbaric practices are banned.

@allcatsaregrey, just DMed you.

I’m always shocked at the contrasting attitudes.

No your kid can’t have autism/ADHD because of x or y reason. Then after a long wait the school may come around to the idea and refer to CAMHS. They require two different evidence sources (school and home) and it’s a thorough assessment which considers other issues eg dyspraxia or other communication conditions.

For ADHD they want plenty specific examples from before age 10 to justify diagnosis and stimulant meds - for which there are monthly twitchy checks on BP, pulse, weight and height because of side effects… thats the same for adults too. DH initially couldn’t get his paperwork signed off because he had no witness for the childhood section - instead he did an online QB test (apparently an open and shut case there so not sure why they don’t include that always).

Versus immediate gender affirmation and (in this case) an assessment which included no family or school reports. Staggering!

@allcatsaregrey im so relieved for you and I hope things get even better for you and your family xx

Asperger’s Experts videos on YouTube are worth a look. They call that “defence mode” and draw parallels with trying to teach social skills or do the basics with “trying to teach knitting to a soldier during combat”. Sorry for the de-rail

It was low level bullying in our case too. Very hard for schools to tackle. I remember saying to a teacher that if DC had been punched in the face, it would have done much less damage than the constant pushing, shoving, name-calling et cetera. Schools can take much more effective action for physical bullying. It seems to be very hard for them to distinguish between low-level bullying and ‘banter’. It didn’t help of course that we didn’t know about ASD until sixth form.
I think it is unforgivable that gender clinics do not take any of this background information into consideration, even when they are made aware of it.

Wishing your family strength

@Kalalilyinteresting you mention the trauma of bullying and fight and flight as I feel my daughter was in a constant state of anxiety at school caused by low level bullying and I think this contributed to her gender issues.

Thanks for all the responses it really does help. I admit I had some wobbles if we were doing the right thing by her but hearing from others helped strengthen my resolve. I can't take credit for the article as it was her dad that wrote it.

For the poster that asked how she can afford it. She's 19 years old and her autism is debilitating enough to receive monthly disability payment. As someone who rarely goes out she doesn't spend much and it adds up quite quickly.

Thanks for posting this.

And so glad that this underhand, non professional clinic was made aware that they couldn't get away with what they had planned to do.

So 2 pluses at least. Family and friends working together in the best interests of the daughter. And a clinic which now realises that maybe in the past they could have got away with it but now cant.

Can I just ask, and not wanting to add to the stress of the situation for the parents, but shouldn't the story of this clinice be published or quoted in the media.

At least is Scotland.

It is a scandal.

PS just to say the article is wonderfully written.

to all and hopes for a more settled future for all concerned.

Edited to add and for making others aware of PITT

@allcatsaregrey I wanted to say thank you you for posting too. My ASD DC20 went to a gender clinic with our knowledge, but against our advice. They told us that they would go to gender GP if we did not support this appointment. Our private psychiatrist told us that as our child had pre-existing mental health conditions and was diagnosed with autism that they would be unlikely to be prescribed hormones at this stage. I felt this was very unlikely from what I had read online, but felt that I had no choice as I had read even worse things about GenderGP. My worst fears were realised and the clinic recommended gender affirming care and referred to their endocrinology clinic. The report that I sent from the psychiatrist which talked ASD and about the trauma of bullying and the effects of being in a constant state of fight and flight and the impact that that had on the teenage brain when it should’ve been forming a sense of self seems to have been completely ignored. We asked our young person to give permission for the clinic to speak to us. Permission was given but the clinic replied to our child that the report was theirs, that it was a snapshot in time and could change at any time and was based on self diagnosis. They finished with the hope that they would continue their gender affirming journey. We were and still are speechless at this response.

We don’t know what is happening regarding appointments now, but we have refused to pay for medical transitioning. We have managed to maintain a relationship with our child and this is paramount to us as they are at uni and away from home. As such, we don’t feel that we can challenge the clinic at this stage but they have acted in such a deeply unprofessional manner. Our hearts are broken.

@allcatsaregrey I can't thank you enough for putting this article together and helping others when you're probably completely exhausted from your own family struggle.

I'm sorry if this is obvious or that I missed it - how did the young person get the money to attend this private clinic at 17ish?

Waterside pricing page: As a rule of thumb, you should budget for three one-hour appointments. For example, two appointments with one of our doctors (£415 each) and one psychiatric/psychological assessment (fees starting from £415, although subject to change) i.e. minimum of £1,200. If you receive any hormones from Waterside Clinic, there will be an additional cost for these.

ETA this story is trully appalling and I hope this helps other families fight their way out of this

Thank you for posting @allcatsaregrey . I understand that it must be a really lonely place to be - but there's an army of women and men - parents and non parents - who are fully behind you and understand how appallingly you and your DD have been treated,

@allcatsaregrey, you’re among friends here - this little part of the world, at least, doesn’t think you’re wrong.

Hi this article is about my daughter. Thanks BonfireLady for posting it. Its hard to feel like it's a victory when we still have a confused, struggling teenager with a long road ahead of her. There are so many stories which are eerily similar and if this can help even just one family then it is worth sharing. One of the biggest problems for families like us as there just isn't any non-affirming support available and it's hard to stand your ground when it feels like the rest of the world thinks you're wrong.

Such good news. I hope your DD stays clear Bonfire and I know exactly what you mean. My ASD DD18 was into this a few years ago. She’s on the fringes now (and significantly healthier) but I always worry that it wouldn’t take much to pull her back in. So good to see something like this which shows clinics what they should be doing.