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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Confusing statement about treatment for intersex being a victory for trans community

134 replies

IwantToRetire · 14/06/2025 02:28

I feel a bit bad about making this a thread topic as it is clearly quite something to win the Women's Prize for fiction with your first novel.

And I am not meaning or wanting in any way to make this a personal attack.

But surely calling this trans treatment isn't right? Or have I got it wrong?

Van der Wouden revealed in her acceptance speech that she is intersex. “I was a girl until I turned 13, and then as I hit puberty all that was supposed to happen did not quite happen, or if it did happen it happened too much,” she said. “I won’t thrill you too much with the specifics but the long and the short of it is that hormonally I am intersex.”

“This little fact defined my life throughout my teens until I advocated for the healthcare that I needed. In the few precious moments here on stage I am receiving truly the greatest honour of my life as a woman, presenting to you as a woman and accepting this Women’s prize and that is because of every single trans person who’s fought for healthcare, who changed the system, the law, societal standards, themselves. I stand on their shoulders.”

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jun/12/womens-prize-debut-yael-van-der-wouden-the-safekeep-rachel-clarke-the-story-of-a-heart

And this isn't the Guardian twisting her words, because other papers have posted snippets and this seems the fullest.

So my confusion is whether it is true that the treatment for a biological women with DSD has only become (more) available since medical intervention for men who want to transition has become more common.

If she wants to identify as part of the trans and queer community that's her right.

I am just hoping someone with the right medical knowledge can explain what she might be referring to.

Sorry if this is a really ignorant question. Blush

Women’s prize for fiction goes to debut novelist Yael van der Wouden’s The Safekeep

Nonfiction award goes to Rachel Clarke’s ‘beautiful and compassionate’ The Story of a Heart, about a lifesaving transplant seen from all sides

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jun/12/womens-prize-debut-yael-van-der-wouden-the-safekeep-rachel-clarke-the-story-of-a-heart

OP posts:
TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 14/06/2025 05:48

As I understand it, there are over 30 conditions that have been identified that fall under the DSD umbrella, so someone has been paying attention, and long before the 'trans' debacle started.

NotBadConsidering · 14/06/2025 05:45

It’s nonsense because of the contradiction.

Campaigners for children with DSDs have long advocated for children to be left alone hormonally and surgically until they’re 18 because of the (correct IMO) belief that these children should be able to make their own decisions about they’re bodies when they are old enough.

Modern trans activists argue the same exact opposite for gender distressed children; they argue that children should be medicalised with hormones and surgery as soon as possible and they are more than capable of making such drastic changes to their bodies at a young age.

Regardless of this person’s sex or DSD diagnosis, it’s laughable to consider that trans activism has helped. It’s doing the exact opposite.

StandingOvation · 14/06/2025 04:42

The “I” being absorbed into the TQ+ umbrella is just another example of how the lines are blurred to make the whole thing more palatable. Now, instead of treating DSD issues on their own terms, they’re yoked to the trans agenda in a way that oversimplifies everything.

DSD people face real, complex, often painful medical and biological issues that can lead to medical interventions, surgeries, or lifelong health concerns: things that are often completely ignored when their experiences are lumped under the TQ+ umbrella. It’s not just a matter of identity; it’s about actual, sometimes debilitating, biological realities.

And DSDs actually prove the biological sex binary. These conditions (e.g. Klinefelter Syndrome, Turner Syndrome, Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome), are sex-specific and occur within the framework of male and female biology. They’re variations within the binary, not outside of it. Trying to fit these real, biological conditions into the nebulous and ideologically-driven “TQ+” umbrella only serves to confuse and distort the scientific realities of sex differences. It’s a way of bypassing biology to fit a narrative that ignores the very distinctions that DSDs highlight.

This person could’ve used her platform to talk about the real complexities of being intersex (which has nothing to do with her book anyway), but instead, she just tacks her identity onto the ever-expanding trans bandwagon. It’s lazy, and a way to gain political capital by hitching herself to a more dominant narrative. The messier, more uncomfortable truths get thrown out of the window.

GarlicMile · 14/06/2025 04:08

Eh, literary festivals are virtue-signalling circle jerks. No doubt they all felt they had to express hand-wringing sympathy for the transborg, and grandstanding your claimed special alliance with the rainbow alphabet (thus validating the "I" inclusion for guaranteed PR cookies) is a boss power move.

There's nothing about DSDs or transgenderiness in her book.

illinivich · 14/06/2025 03:55

How trans patients respond to treatment may inform treatment for patients with dsd. Just as any other condition may.

But the idea that children with DSD owe a debt of gratitude to adults funding transing children is offensive.

IwantToRetire · 14/06/2025 03:49

My confusion is that is someone who is biologically female and has DSD may receive treatment relating to how their female biology doesn't "devolop" in what is considered to be the normal way. And presumably how this is treated depends on the way developments differs.

Someone who is trans or wants to transition is trying to modify the sex of their body to make it appear or seem to be the opposite sex to the one they were born. Which isn't about their body not developing in what is seen as normal for their sex. ie their body doesn't have a medical condition.

OP posts:
AidaP · 14/06/2025 03:35

illinivich · 14/06/2025 03:22

So my confusion is whether it is true that the treatment for a biological women with DSD has only become (more) available since medical intervention for men who want to transition has become more common.

I suspect its a general improvement in endocrinology understanding and treatment, not that the demands of men to grow boobs leads to a greater understanding of womens health. Which i think she is suggesting?

DSD often become apparent during puberty, and some demand to suppress the puberty of children caught up in trans ideology. But i cant see how the latter can directly inform the treatment for the former?

It sounds to me like TRA are suggesting/threatened that if authorities stop childhood medical transition, research into DSD will be reduced.

I was going to explain more after your first paragraph but then I read the rest. When you grow up and are genuinely interested, and will skip offensive language, I am sure someone will offer to help, but for now... Yeah, grow up first.

illinivich · 14/06/2025 03:22

So my confusion is whether it is true that the treatment for a biological women with DSD has only become (more) available since medical intervention for men who want to transition has become more common.

I suspect its a general improvement in endocrinology understanding and treatment, not that the demands of men to grow boobs leads to a greater understanding of womens health. Which i think she is suggesting?

DSD often become apparent during puberty, and some demand to suppress the puberty of children caught up in trans ideology. But i cant see how the latter can directly inform the treatment for the former?

It sounds to me like TRA are suggesting/threatened that if authorities stop childhood medical transition, research into DSD will be reduced.

AidaP · 14/06/2025 02:44

IwantToRetire · 14/06/2025 02:28

I feel a bit bad about making this a thread topic as it is clearly quite something to win the Women's Prize for fiction with your first novel.

And I am not meaning or wanting in any way to make this a personal attack.

But surely calling this trans treatment isn't right? Or have I got it wrong?

Van der Wouden revealed in her acceptance speech that she is intersex. “I was a girl until I turned 13, and then as I hit puberty all that was supposed to happen did not quite happen, or if it did happen it happened too much,” she said. “I won’t thrill you too much with the specifics but the long and the short of it is that hormonally I am intersex.”

“This little fact defined my life throughout my teens until I advocated for the healthcare that I needed. In the few precious moments here on stage I am receiving truly the greatest honour of my life as a woman, presenting to you as a woman and accepting this Women’s prize and that is because of every single trans person who’s fought for healthcare, who changed the system, the law, societal standards, themselves. I stand on their shoulders.”

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jun/12/womens-prize-debut-yael-van-der-wouden-the-safekeep-rachel-clarke-the-story-of-a-heart

And this isn't the Guardian twisting her words, because other papers have posted snippets and this seems the fullest.

So my confusion is whether it is true that the treatment for a biological women with DSD has only become (more) available since medical intervention for men who want to transition has become more common.

If she wants to identify as part of the trans and queer community that's her right.

I am just hoping someone with the right medical knowledge can explain what she might be referring to.

Sorry if this is a really ignorant question. Blush

That is mostly correct, while exact numbers of intersex and transgender people is not known, just this number would not tell the whole story as many intersex people never even know about the fact, not to mention go into the trenches to pick up the good fight.

Transgender people on the other hand are way more likely to take that stand, and do so loudly, as the respect in rights, and access to medical interventions (if wanted) are literally life saving (there are tons of studies showing the correlation between access to those and suicide rates). And when transgender people gain rights, generally so do intersex people, although UK still remains quite backwards in this regard.

Now whether an intersex person counts themselves as transgender is entirely down to them and either approach as valid.

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