Page 11 | NHS Policy Audit - working party -Thread #3

KnottyAuty · 2025-06-12T19:57:18+00:00

*NHS Policy Audit - working party -Thread #3* *Original thread #1 here: * *[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=1]]* *Thread #2:* *[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5322494-nhs-policy-audit-working-party-thread-2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5322494-nhs-policy-audit-working-party-thread-2]]* *This is a thread about “keeping the receipts” on NHS Policies prior to the Supreme Court ruling on 16th April 2025.* *Our working theory is that there were no single sex spaces for NHS Staff or Patients in the entire country before that date, having all been removed by stealth.* *We are aiming to prove this by auditing websites and policies for all the UK trusts and using the results to raise public awareness. * *As well as recording what has happened historically, the information will form a baseline so we can check which Trusts comply or defy the judgement in due course...* *We are working around the country region by region. If you fancy getting involved in a bit of grassroots feminism then please do join in to help!? * *Each trust takes about an hour to research and you can upload online without giving any personal details away. Comment below and we can give you the link to an online survey - it changes for each region.* *Thanks soooo much to all the vipers who have helped so far and @twoloons for doing a great job with the thread wrangling!*

YellowRoom · 01/08/2025 09:46

Sorry about the link
NHS England » LGBT+ health https://share.google/OR44923SKPmdgAmz

Gah, it's shown the same.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/about/equality/equality-hub/patient-equalities-programme/lgbt-health/

FarriersGirl · 01/08/2025 09:45

YouCantProveIt · 01/08/2025 08:51

Hello - here to volunteer. Please let me know how I can assist.

That is good of you but the audit is complete. We have a large and unique dataset that will get a few tweaks and refinements in the next couple of weeks but provides a lasting record of the level of institutional capture within the NHS.

YouCantProveIt · 01/08/2025 09:03

FarriersGirl · 31/07/2025 09:54

Calling all Vipers - we are done! Finished! The audit of UK trusts is COMPLETE!!

Ha - should have read the full thread. Nothing worse than a volunteer when the work is done.

Original poster

KnottyAuty · 01/08/2025 08:59

YellowRoom · 01/08/2025 08:53

It never ends.
NHS England » LGBT+ health share.google/df07iYEFv65Z1uF45

Ooh thanks - do you have direct link please?
Some of us are wary of clicking trackable links - thanks!☺️

OP posts:

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/08/2025 08:59

FarriersGirl · 31/07/2025 09:54

Calling all Vipers - we are done! Finished! The audit of UK trusts is COMPLETE!!

Amazing! 🤩 Brilliant work!

Original poster

KnottyAuty · 01/08/2025 08:58

teawamutu · 31/07/2025 22:29

In celebration, I went back to the start of thread one and found the first substantive finding, from (fittingly given recent co-ordination heroics) @FarriersGirl :

I have just done a very quick trawl of my local NHS trust EDI policy. The main policy does not look too bad however beneath it lies a separate policy for trangender and non binary staff. This includes gems such as a specific personal transitioning plan for any member of staff who goes to their manager saying this is what they want. And beneath this special policy is a very lengthy set of guidance giving permissions to access single sex spaces etc. Most worryingly it seems to indicate that patients would not be informed of clinicians actual sex if they asked and their refusal to be treated could be deemed abuse of staff. EQuIA template also worse than useless as it conflates sex with gender.
There is general EDI guidance beneath the main policy but the trans one looks to be the only protected characteristic given its own special policy and guidelines. Feeling slightly queasy as this is where I would be treated 😨

Anyone else feeling quite nostalgic for a time when this was a nasty surprise, rather than Standard Operating fecking Procedure?

Literally this - odd isn’t that not many people are aware!

Thanks for doing this because how amazing that @FarriersGirl nailed all the big issues in one post…. And that we thought that it might not be all of them?

Ah those innocent days…

OP posts:

YellowRoom · 01/08/2025 08:53

It never ends.
NHS England » LGBT+ health share.google/df07iYEFv65Z1uF45

YouCantProveIt · 01/08/2025 08:51

Hello - here to volunteer. Please let me know how I can assist.

Bannedontherun · 01/08/2025 08:11

Many thanks and many congratulations to all your efforts.

Opinionpolecat · 01/08/2025 07:27

FarriersGirl · 31/07/2025 09:54

Calling all Vipers - we are done! Finished! The audit of UK trusts is COMPLETE!!

That's fantastic! Well done everyone.

teawamutu · 31/07/2025 22:29

In celebration, I went back to the start of thread one and found the first substantive finding, from (fittingly given recent co-ordination heroics) @FarriersGirl :

I have just done a very quick trawl of my local NHS trust EDI policy. The main policy does not look too bad however beneath it lies a separate policy for trangender and non binary staff. This includes gems such as a specific personal transitioning plan for any member of staff who goes to their manager saying this is what they want. And beneath this special policy is a very lengthy set of guidance giving permissions to access single sex spaces etc. Most worryingly it seems to indicate that patients would not be informed of clinicians actual sex if they asked and their refusal to be treated could be deemed abuse of staff. EQuIA template also worse than useless as it conflates sex with gender.
There is general EDI guidance beneath the main policy but the trans one looks to be the only protected characteristic given its own special policy and guidelines. Feeling slightly queasy as this is where I would be treated 😨

Anyone else feeling quite nostalgic for a time when this was a nasty surprise, rather than Standard Operating fecking Procedure?

teawamutu · 31/07/2025 22:10

KnottyAuty · 31/07/2025 21:49

I’ve been out all day this is so fabulous!! Thanks so much to everyone who helped. Whether it was one trust, or ten, you’ve all made a difference xoxo

And by complete coincidence I met Ermine and Maya F today. We were talking about all you fabulous auditors and they both said thank you!! And they are so impressed!! I think Maya said other lovely things too but I’m a bit too tired to remember sorry!

Anyway well done everyone you are wonderful - big kisses

Edited

Show quote history

Dayumm, that is a formidable gathering! Oh to have been a viper in the corner...

Original poster

KnottyAuty · 31/07/2025 21:49

FarriersGirl · 31/07/2025 09:54

Calling all Vipers - we are done! Finished! The audit of UK trusts is COMPLETE!!

I’ve been out all day this is so fabulous!! Thanks so much to everyone who helped. Whether it was one trust, or ten, you’ve all made a difference xoxo

And by complete coincidence I met Ermine and Maya F today. We were talking about all you fabulous auditors and they both said thank you!! And they are so impressed!! I think Maya said other lovely things too but I’m a bit too tired to remember sorry!

Anyway well done everyone you are wonderful - big kisses

OP posts:

Peregrina · 31/07/2025 10:37

Yes, I say well done too. I wasn't able to help but have been following closely.

This NHS survey came about as a result of the Sandie Peggie ET.

Does anyone know if there have been similar cases regarding school teachers?
There was one who won her case about her Christian beliefs but I don't think trans came into that.

Harassedevictee · 31/07/2025 10:07

Congratulations to you all it’s been a Herculean effort. I have really admired your dedication to get this done.

You all deserve a 🍷☕️ depending on your preference and a Tunnocks Tea Cake.

FarriersGirl · 31/07/2025 09:54

Calling all Vipers - we are done! Finished! The audit of UK trusts is COMPLETE!!

GreenAllOver · 30/07/2025 12:32

FarriersGirl · 30/07/2025 06:23

I agree with TwoLoons that education would need a different strategy. Not my field, but it seems that the new guidance is out for implementation in 2026 so things should be changing anyway. With the NHS we were aiming to show what a mess DEI policies have caused in the hope of getting top down guidance issued.

As I said on that thread, I think this is more of a grassroots action as there are so many schools. I think what we’d want is to ask parents to ask for copies of the policies at their schools, which I think the draft guidance now allows them to do.

The central bit would need to be twofold - firstly a map of all schools with a colour code for those for which we have policies, so people can check if their school has one and can ask for it if not. Secondly, some way to help people check if the policies are in line with the Supreme Court ruling. Maybe we could have a way to upload the policies to the map, so knowledgeable people (another team like this one) could take some each and check them?

We really need an education policy expert to input in to this, I’m sure there’s some things I haven’t thought of and things that might stop the plan working.

Cantunseeit · 30/07/2025 12:05

Blackmetallic · 30/07/2025 11:57

The Southern Health EqIA for the staff transgender policy was long but very poor. It solemnly and lengthily reviewed every protected characteristic as related to the transgender/nonbinary person. So, transgender person with a disability, transgender person with dependents, transgender people of different ages or ethnicities etc...And came to the conclusion that everything was a positive intervention for transgender people and therefore absolutely fine.

So many like that! What do they think the EqIA is for?!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/07/2025 12:02

Blackmetallic · 30/07/2025 11:57

The Southern Health EqIA for the staff transgender policy was long but very poor. It solemnly and lengthily reviewed every protected characteristic as related to the transgender/nonbinary person. So, transgender person with a disability, transgender person with dependents, transgender people of different ages or ethnicities etc...And came to the conclusion that everything was a positive intervention for transgender people and therefore absolutely fine.

Not the first one of those I’ve come across. I genuinely do not understand how these people’s brains work. It is painful.

Blackmetallic · 30/07/2025 11:57

The Southern Health EqIA for the staff transgender policy was long but very poor. It solemnly and lengthily reviewed every protected characteristic as related to the transgender/nonbinary person. So, transgender person with a disability, transgender person with dependents, transgender people of different ages or ethnicities etc...And came to the conclusion that everything was a positive intervention for transgender people and therefore absolutely fine.

Blackmetallic · 30/07/2025 11:49

Southern Health and Social Care Trust submitted

Cantunseeit · 30/07/2025 11:44

Cantunseeit · 29/07/2025 17:04

Oops! I’d missed that I was down for South Eastern. I’ll get it done tomorrow

All done, and submitted now :-)

FarriersGirl · 30/07/2025 06:23

I agree with TwoLoons that education would need a different strategy. Not my field, but it seems that the new guidance is out for implementation in 2026 so things should be changing anyway. With the NHS we were aiming to show what a mess DEI policies have caused in the hope of getting top down guidance issued.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 29/07/2025 20:47

@teawamutu, this is the post I was thinking of:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374160-statutory-guidance-on-rse-and-health-education-now-out-from-dfe?reply=145726638&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

Page 2 | Statutory guidance on RSE and health education now out from DfE | Mumsnet

Apologies if there’s a thread running already - the DfE statutory guidance on relationships and sex education is out today: [[https://www.gov.uk/gover...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5374160-statutory-guidance-on-rse-and-health-education-now-out-from-dfe?reply=145726638

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 29/07/2025 20:41

teawamutu · 29/07/2025 20:33

Just in case anyone is regarding the empty time stretching out after this... Would there be any benefit to considering an education version...?

There is a mum (wife/partner of the dad who is challenging his children’s school’s mixed sex changing room policy) who suggested this. I think it would need a different thread and maybe a different strategy (just because of the sheer numbers of schools) but it is def worth considering.

Let me see if I can find her post(s).