Trans sibling in law

I'd say it goes further than that.

You've actually got to believe they are male, have always been male, and were erroneously and presumptuously assigned female at birth due to a narrow-minded misconception that only females can have vaginas.

Trans people can spot performative support from miles away, faking it won't work. But if you genuinely are willing to show effort to accept them as they are, they will help you and guide you through it.

If not, well, enjoy being excluded from their life very quickly. Said @AidaP

Is this what is currently being pushed on other forums?
We have a newly trans person in our family, who is discovering a new way in their 50s.
They are currently picking fights, digging up all sorts of obscure think pieces and clearly very immersed in a new life.
They are very angry that we are not going for detail. Just like the last 30 years, I don't want any info on their sex life and previously they have shown no interest in my lived life as a woman. They were previously a banter type bloke.
How can we convince our much loved relative that we are still there, just not up to speed with trans politics.

but seriously, if your DH sibling is very sure that they can come to Germany and walz into Gender Affirming Care or Surgery, or SRS, they should really check into it in detail.

AFAIK from DC friends, i think most surgeries are carried out in Munich? I am not sure, but i would also check that there aren't any MH assessments required prior to medical interventions etc. Not being able to speak German isn't usually a problem here because most healthcare can be done in English (and other languages)

It is difficult. On a personal level my default position is to be kind, but firm (i will never say that a person can change sex, but i will call them by their chosen new name. But i also think family members need to look out for each other and be sure that the chosen path really is what the family member wants.

😆 🤣

Of course SIL is now BIL. Just as Kermit is a toad. And I am Cleopatra.

I’d hate to be in a position where I felt forced to go along with what I think is a delusion.

And these PP’s who are like, ‘’my mate’s a transwoman but she knows she’s a man and we laugh about it” like it’s some sort of intellectual gotcha really annoy me.

fortunately I’ve never been in this position with anyone I was close to. But I’d struggle to go along with a lot of delusions… like if someone thought that could manifest a million £ into their bank account, or if they could become 10 years younger, or grow two inches taller. If people said they identified as a rich/young/tall person, And we had to fully go along with it, they’d be laughed at.

And the irony of a PP saying that transpeople can spot ‘performative’ support a mile off…

When you’re an adult, you should wear what you what, love who you want. Change your name if you want to. But don’t ask me to validate your delusion. And don’t hurt children and vulnerable adults.

Honestly I would refer to them as your sibling in law and avoid using any pronouns - just use the name they want you to use

Ahem. the correct term is the Batshit Signal

This. I'd probably call them by the chosen name but I wouldn't really say anything, it's going to happen there isn't anything you can do.

You need to have the conversation with him, to see how he wants to be addressed. That will save you walking through the mine field. Don't set yourself up to 'fail'.

You can't just come here and get free medical care.

but possibly your sibling in law is going private? get them to check before they get a massive bill

People can't change sex, but it is kind to use their new name etc even if you don't use pronouns.

Buy a copy of Helen Joyce's book.

Women can't "come out" as men or vice versa OP. Well, not since they cancelled Stars in Their Eyes anyway. RIP Matthew Kelly (joking, I know he's not actually dead).

She could "come out" as a lesbian if so inclined though. HTH.

You need to split various points...

Despite some incorrect advice on this thread - it is biologically impossible for a person to change sex - so a man will always be a man, and a woman will always be a woman - a transwoman is a man and a transman is a woman etc. - that is fact / biology / law, and despite people posting inaccuracies at times will never change...

But the person concerned is still your sister-in-law and that we assume means that there is a certain closeness... and perhaps it is worth putting aside for the moment the reality that she will always be a woman, and try to understand why she has got to the point of believing that she needs to try and change / would be better off as a man - you might find it difficult to argue the biological reality if she is too sucked into the woo-juice fed by the pro-trans groups, but you may be able to reference the emotions / feelings / etc. and see whether you can help her at that level - not easy, but perhaps worth a try. Perhaps there are things that you could suggest that would help her address some of her concerns without having to travel all that journey - e.g. clothing / how she presents in terms of hair and person - could you help her explore a new identity in that area to avoid having to go down a route of body change / hormones / etc.

Ultimately, you have a choice - if someone presents to you as what they are not (i.e. pretending to be a man when born a woman) you need to decide whether that is a big enough issue for you to fall out over - for some people it is a small issue, for others a big one - for me I have a high level of pride in my integrity so would not wish to be put into a place where I was asked to join in a lie and pretend something that was not true - If it was serious enough to damage a relationship that might make me very sad, but I would still hold onto my integrity as that is a big part of my identity and it wouldn't be right to compromise my identity as part of supporting someone else's adopted identity. Ultimately that is a decision only you can make...

How does one tell the difference?

Do not engage on this. Call the person by the name they choose (good manners) and use the pronoun “you” if addressing them. Do not comment on appearance. Do not comment on the plan. It is unlikely to come to fruition.

Is the individual a German citizen? Do they already have a German passport? If not it will be a long process to get a visa/residence permit. Even if they are a German national they will then have to pay in to the state health insurance scheme. Are they prepared to do this?

I know that everyone on Mumsnet thinks the German health care system is fantastic and that specialist treatment is available on demand. The reality is different with many specialists refusing to accept Krankenkasse (NHS type) referrals or offering appointments months down the line.

Not sure about trans medicine. There may be some zealots happy to lop off a few healthy body parts to gain experience but my guess is that they are likely to be few and far between. Most health care professionals would be wary of malpractice suits and this kind of surgery on a new immigrant would leave them open to those.

Please please could you articulate how pretending she is a man is kind? And. If you think my question is goady, PLEASE, explain why because it really doesn’t make any sense to me.

Honestly. Every day on this “feminism” board there’s a rage about this. A trans woman is not a cross dressing man. So utterly ignorant

where is the rage?

I just returned to the thread and I'm genuinely shocked. I can't really double down because I suppose it'll just be deleted but there are plenty of studies and statistics to back up what I said.

This. It's not love or support to agree that a vulnerable autistic young adult should remove healthy body parts which won't actually help their mental health, and will destroy her physical health and make her unable to have children.

@Primrose86 are you at all close to her, could you chat to her, ask her why she thinks she's a man, what it is that makes her different to other young women?
Ten to a penny it's largely based on either stereotypes or on feeling she doesn't fit in.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/children-gender-clinics-tested-autism-b1224628.html

I think how you react depends on what you believe, and how strongly.

So if you believe she is now a man, then he is now your brother-in-law. It might take some getting used to ur new name and pronouns, hopefully accidentally slipping up will be forgiven

If you believe she is still a woman, can't be a man etc etc then you have to decide if that belief matters more to you than your relationship with the wider family.

Personally, I would use the pronouns they want and refer to them as a transman.

I have a friend who is a TW. I use 'her' TW name (I don't know what the original name was) and she/her pronouns. I also believe 'she' is biologically a man. But then again, so does she. We were joking this week about the male pattern baldness being a pay off for the lovely long thin legs that men often have. She wants my hair, I want her legs.

Ignore the vast majority of comments on here. All you can do is be respectful and kind to your now bil. You might make the odd mistake but most reasonable people will understand, if you at least try to be a nice sil

Tbf they’re right. Not all transwomen are males wearing women’s clothes saying they feel like they’re women.

Plenty people call themselves transwomen while retaining their masculine appearance too.

I just happen to catergorise all males as …men so it makes no difference to me how they dress or refer to themselves. Still men.

Só a man then as being a man is the only prerequisite of being a trans woman

thanks for confirming