Trans sibling in law

Hmm.

How does your husband feel about hissister doing this?

I'd take lead from him because HE not you will be the one who has had his formative years where he formed his own identity shaped by his sex and birth order and relationship to his sister.

Start from that.

Do you feel obliged to do what the sister says. Do what you think is best. 'Being nice' is not necessarily the right approach and can do more harm than good if you are not careful.

Remember how she behaves is relevant. Unacceptable behaviour is still not ok. Don't be blinded by identity heirachies.

I don't mean to derail this thread in any way at all.

"You've got to truly, truly believe that she's changed sex!"

But I was really interested by your reply. I read 1984 about 45 years ago so I don't remember much of it. I actually took this to be a reference to Peter Pan.

There is an exchange between Peter Pan and Wendy in Act One where Peter says that the first laugh of a new born child becomes a fairy. But there is a problem:

"Children know such a lot now. Soon they don’t believe in fairies, and every time a child says ‘I don’t believe in fairies’ there is a fairy somewhere that falls down dead."

If you go to any panto of Peter Pan then there is usually a part where children in the audience are asked to say that they do truly believe in fairies.

I'd be interested in understanding what the 1984 or Clockwork Orange references are.

Is this satire 😂

Not believing a man can be a woman isn't hate.

It's this bullshit along with the 'there's no debate' brigade that is the reason so many people don't really support the community.

Disagreeing doesn't equal hate.

I dislike Chinese food it doesn't mean I hate Chinese people.

I wish someone would come up with a better expression than “transphobe” or “transphobic”.

I’ve had the words hurled at me a few times fuelled by aggression and dislike of my GC views. I also had a look at the trans pages on Reddit and they use this term like it’s the worst possible insult. It’s also used as a “gotcha” when you are trying to have a reasonable discussion and the only response you get is that you don’t understand anything as you are “transphobic”.

It’s just such a ridiculous term that it undermines any arguments when someone regresses to using it and it also just makes me want to laugh. I always have the image of walking into a room and opening a cupboard and getting a fright when a trans person jumps out at me.

I wish someone could come up with a better more well thought description, I know people who use the word transphobic and would refuse to use GC as they feel that’s not an accurate term to represent GC views, bigot is a well used alternative. I prefer bigot as it actually had a meaning and a dictionary definition.

I know it’s a silly thing but I’ve seen it derail lots of discussions when someone tries to shut down a debate by just saying someone must be transphobic unless they 100% affirm that trans people can change sex. The next thing everyone is arguing about the term phobia and that it doesn’t refer to a deep seated fear of trans people.

It’s the same with the unnecessary use of “cis” as an adjective. When did people feel the need to use this when the words “woman” or “man” were perfectly satisfactory before?

I don’t want to derail the thread and I’m being a hypocrite by complaining about the same thing then doing it myself. I just noticed it used on this thread in the same way i’ve used it as an example and it got me pondering about it.

There is one good thing about the term “transphobe” though. It usually leads to an accurate conclusion that someone who uses the term isn’t going to be open to any other views and is part of the trans cult. Maybe we should leave it as it is as way to identify them quickly so we don’t have to keep trying to uphold an equal discussion?

I bet you wouldn't be the only one who wouldn't be happy about it. I mean, I'm a German citizen since the minute I was born and was a member of a Krankenkasse for the first ~25 years of my life and I still can't just waltz in get medical treatments.

yes but since last year we have SelfID so I'm not sure what the new rules are.

But i for one would not be happy if non-EU people can waltz in and use my contributions for bullshit surgery.

I used to think that I understood the difference, but now certain authorities are telling us that transvestites and crossdressers are trans. It's all very confusing.

I recall that there was consternation when Glasgow Life (which deals with sports facilities in Glasgow) included crossdressers as trans.

There used to be a requirement for psychological assessment and it was a long process. A friend of mine who went Ftm about 15 years ago also needed to have a hysterectomy and double mastectomy because of the increased cancer risk due to the testosterone, as a requirement for legal transitioning. This has all changed with the self-ID laws that were brought recently.

Not "anti trans". Feminist.

I agree with TG/Dysphoria not being a choice, but I believe that transitioning is a choice and there are other ways to manage it that are not surgery/medication.

I also believe that you are not tranisitioning to the other sex because that is not possible in humans. For that reason part of being Trans is that you accept that there will always be someone that sees you as the sex you are. This can cause more problems depeneding on the cultural norms about sex. This stress can also increase if you are only in the company of the sex you wish to be i.e if TGW is around mixed company then its alot easy to see them as a woman, but the second they are around just women then it becomes very obvious they are TG. Therfore if someone wishes to transitiion they need to be fully aware that they are choosing a mid-point and they can't control other peoples reactions to that.

I agree that most people are don't actually support people transitioning. From my point of view it is taking healthy tissue and changing it into something that is dysfunctional and has currently unknown effects. I don't believe we have enough longitudinal studies to be able to consent and counsel young trans-people properly on the risk they are taking. I think this is sadly going to end up with a lot of people experiencing profound medical problems in a few years that could have been avoided.

I would profoundly disagree with going anywhere near Reddit. A lot of the people on there are terminally online and simply cannot deal with real world interactions and so their feelings of anxiety are so misplaced that they cannot give useful advice and information.

And lastly I believe the worst thing to happen to Trans people is the idea of affirmation therapy. This means that they are told that their feelings about their body are reality. Good therapy validates feelings i.e. your feelings are real and you need to feel them rather than push them down, rather than validating their feelings of not being in touch with their body as real feelings but not reality. There is a big difference. All people feel disconnected with their body at some point during their life, and there will be a huge increase in that if trauma is invovled.

Derail you say? I think my irony meter just exploded! Please do list the posts we are allowed to respond to, preferably in alphabetical order, it makes it easier for us to adhere to the diktat.

Is it kind though, really?

I'm not sure it is.

Calling a trans man "he" is unkind to them because it encourages them in their belief that they can escape the negative trappings of womanhood simply by identifying as a man. Real life doesn't work like that.

And calling a trans woman "she" is harmful to all women.

I don't see how logically you could agree that a trans man is a "he" whilst denying that a trans woman is a "she".

Whatever you think about transitioning, if someone really wants to be called He it seems the kind thing to do.

There's nothing wrong with not being willing to play pretend.

Feminism doesn’t include tall men, short men, bald men, beardy men, old men, young men, or men that pretend they’re women.

If you’ve merely come here to scold us then I wouldn’t bother, we’ve heard it all, the abuse, the insults, the patronising language, the eye rolling and the rage, and we are simply unmoved by it. I have no idea what you and the other posters get out of coming here to tell us we’re bad people, but we’re honestly bored by it. People can’t change sex, it is immutable, and no amount of surgery or hormone treatments will change that. You can’t bully us anymore, we’re allowed to say the quiet part out loud.

You could at least take a shot at something original, rather than the tired old tropes.

But let’s face it…you, they and everyone knows they’re not a man. So it’s a big game of pretend.

I think if this was in my family I’d struggle. I would. However much you love, like or respect someone, they’re asking you to collude in a big fat lie and that’s not ok. It’s also not healthy for them either. The best life is self acceptance.

Yes - facts are ‘hate’.

It is a fact that human beings cannot change sex. That is not hate.

Well exactly. Because there is none. But because not everyone shares this posters world view it’s “hate”.

Please do report any hate to MN.

Why not? If you don’t think anyone has expressed hate, MNHQ won’t delete the posts.

I'd go with avoiding the use of pronouns as much as possible.

Do you have any kind of relationship with her? Does your partner?

I'd try to be as neutral as you can. Not embracing it but not putting it down directly to her either.

The best thing you or your partner can do is try to get her out into the world a bit (presented in a masculine way if she chooses) and away from the internet. The more normal interactions and distractions she can have the better before this all becomes very one dimensional.

This is the trans paradox.

If trans women really were women and trans men really were men, nobody would need to say it.

We don't waste our time and energy saying that water is water and happiness is happiness and football is football.

The only reason anybody is bothering to say that trans women are women and trans men are men is because everybody knows that it is not true.

It rather begs the question that if we are so full of hate, in your opinion, what are you doing here? What do you get out of posting here, confirmation that we’re all terfs and are doomed to hell?

I don't have a fixed view on this (unlike many on here!). To me it depends on the person.

My (formerly) niece now identifies as a boy (they're a teen). I call her they/them generally (at least to their face and to her dad and mum who are very supportive of their choices - the rest of the family all still say she in other conversations 🙈) and I do use their new name to them but sorry, I can't seriously call someone wearing a miniskirt and fishnets and full makeup with a boyfriend who is apparently with them as they're gay as him/he.

Along the same lines I struggle to call my neighbour 'she' - he's a bloke in a dress with a beard (and quite predatory towards other female neighbours and friends of ours).

My husband's friend Rachel I would always call her/she as she's had the surgery and you'd never know she was born male.

So I guess what I'm saying is go with how serious you think they are with it. I find they/them is less difficult than using the wrong sex term in most cases.