Trans sibling in law

Why, thank you very much indeed for your help, David Herbert. 😂

But it's now the 21st century. The bizarrely-constructed, wordy passage you used as your 'exemplar' in your previous post is the very obvious deviation from the way in which people communicate verbally. You've convoluted it purposely to make your weak point, thus it sounds as ridiculous as you intended it to sound because this is not how people speak! A throwaway comment of 2 truncated sentences, not a lengthy analysis of 'John's' new relationship, is far more likely the way this happy news would be communicated in everyday 2025 parlance. And any reader encountering that silliness can pick up upon it instantly and draw their own conclusions. Your imaginary example is the only thing that is contrived.

Incidentally, relationships that are conducted solely on condition of others behaving precisely as demanded probably don't fall into the 'healthy' category to start with. And identity politicking fails to grasp that the rest of the world does not necessarily bend to accommodate individual will.

Trans activism is hostile to women, which is why you tend to find opposition to it on one of the world's biggest sites run by and for women.

If your question about how to react to your SIL is coming from a place of genuine curiosity, you would be far better placed seeking this guidance from charities or organisations which work to support trans people. If you weren’t already aware, MN is notoriously a hostile space for trans people. Do your own research around how to be an ally, and as a starting point, simply ask your SIL what pronouns they would like you to use, and if they would like you to continue using their current name or not.

Show me on the doll where the pronoun hurt you.

Good for them. I’m not sure why anyone would want to have a relationship with someone who wants to do them harm but each to their own.

I’m not anti-trans people at all, unless they or anyone else for that matter try to trample all over other people’s rights and dignity.

This is what it means to live in a pluralistic, tolerant society. We don’t have to endorse other people’s beliefs to protect their rights.

I think the situation is similar to if the OP’s relative wanted to become a nun. You can recognise that an adult has the right to make their own decisions within the law, without agreeing that they are a good idea, or aligning yourself with the principles that led to that position.

Only people that live in cloud cuckoo land would agree with you.

This is an excellent thread with some of my all-time favourite FWR posters contributing. Thank you all.

So… if the SIL suddenly came out as the Messiah… not only would everyone around her have to acknowledge and support this, but really, truly deep-down believe it too? And nobody would be allowed to say, come on now, that’s not really possible, are you ok, what are you looking for in your life and can I help with that? Because ironically, the SIL actually being the Messiah is more likely than her being a man… because one is a subjective matter that depends entirely on other people’s consent and acceptance, and the other is an objective impossibility. It’s crazy, it really is.

And To answer a PP upthread, I much prefer to consider myself a sex-realist than a transphobe. I’m not anti-trans people at all, unless they or anyone else for that matter try to trample all over other people’s rights and dignity.

If people can't cope with the reality of their sex, they need to work with a therapist to fix that.

It is not up to the rest of us to pretzel our logic, language, scientific understanding on behalf of their mental health issues.

It's also harmful to one's well-being to not only be unable to face confronting views, but to even insulate oneself from such views to the point of cutting off relationships with close ones. When people do that over, say, religion or a new hobby or a new friend, we usually conclude that there's something very wrong going on.

Your example doesn't work, because GC views are protected beliefs while homophobia isn't.

Ah, sometimes I say "law school" to refer to the place where I did the LPC. But none of my tutors ever referred to students as "learned colleague". We'd have thought they were a right prat if they had.

All countries have different rules, yes. But even if you are some sort of qualified lawyer in another country you should know better than to claim any kind of expertise in relation to a matter of UK law, surely.

That's why I kept asking the question.

A bit like if an anti-vaxxer claimed to be a doctor, you'd want to check that they don't mean they have a PhD in underwater basket weaving.

Whereas some people are able to have relationships with family members who have different religious and political views.

I honestly thought that after the very, very clear Supreme Court ruling that we had seen the end of ill-informed (or wishful thinking) trans right activists coming on here telling us that the law allows men in women's spaces. Clearly I was over optimistic that they would accept that women have a point, and legal protection, and move on. I don't know why you pick threads where someone has a real life concern to come and spout your incorrect rhetoric. There is something called 'Operation let them speak' so, I suppose, thanks for coming and peaking a few more lurkers.

It’s not believing the world revolves around you to not want a relationship with people who hold views that are harmful to your wellbeing.

In a shocking turn of events, I also don’t want a relationship with the uncle who thought I shouldn’t be allowed to marry my wife. That also does not indicate that I think the world revolves around me.

Yes - I think there may be some confusion here.

Do different countries have different rules about the experience required to qualify?

Stopping short of surgery is a win, agreed. But don't underestimate the long term effects of cross sex hormones.

I have a family member who sounds very similar to this girl (also autistic) who transitioned and has now detransitioned.

She didn't have surgery (thankfully) but being on T for a period is still causing her health problems, despite her being off hormones for some time now. She is also struggling to find healthcare professionals who can help her. Many don't want to know. Others don't know how to help her. It's a very unfortunate situation.

You do know that there are some actual “fully qualified” lawyers on here? 😆

We don’t have “debate club” in the U.K. And it’s not called “law school”.

If they didn't qualify then they are not a solicitor or a barrister. They are a law graduate.

It is illegal to say you are a solicitor or a barrister if you are not one.

Poor kid. Lovely, isolated, autistic. I’m sure this happens a lot. Autistic people can often struggle to form relationships in the real world so find connections online with a community who welcome and embraces them.

Here’s what I would do:
Try to use her new name and pronouns.

Speak to her:
This must be really hard
We love you and are here for you and want you to be healthy and happy always - nothing will ever change that
We will try to use your new name but if we slip up please understand it’s not out of malice, it’s just a slip up while we’re all adjusting.

Hopefully this might run its course and she’ll stop short of surgery.

I think the explanation is that they studied/took exams but didn’t qualify to practice?

Yes there's a fantastic building in Bristol that used to be public bathrooms just here (see image) - thoigh it was still in operation until the 1970s at which point presumably it had become entirely normal for all private residences to have hot water and washing facilities (my dad grew up in a house without a bathroom at all, just access to an outdoor latrine shared between 4 houses, up till the 1960s)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobs_Wells_Baths

I do wonder if they might make a comeback as more houses are built with just showers and no bath, which doesn't bother most people as showers are usually entirely adequate but it's nice to have a bath once in a while - I like a bath once a month or so.

@PlanetJanette

"She might be fine with that, but she shouldn’t do it expecting to be able to retain a close (or indeed any) relationship with her BIL."

Only if the sibling-in-law believes that the world should revolve entirely around them. Not all trans people are that self-centered.

Sure. But first, please confirm whether you are a solicitor or a barrister. Otherwise we will assume that you are neither. There's no question about "doxxing" here. There are literally tens of thousands of solicitors and barristers in the UK.

Not as much as the nonsensical "they/them", in my opinion.