Trans sibling in law

You can't change 'gender', because humans have no agency in whether and how gendered-stereotypes are constructed. Apologies, but Butler's terms are inevitable here: she claims gendered discourses are iterated, reiterated and reenacted in a so-called chain of social signification and meaning. (Ugh! I'm sorry ....). There's no mystical essentialism involved at all here that I can see; despite her later protestations to the contrary. If gender is something we perform, then by definition it cannot be 'innate'. Gender ideologists can blame their very own demigod queer theorists for that one: they have a habit of catching themselves in the net of their own wordy pontifications and Butler is just about the worst culprit.

We have no more agency over socially-regulated gendered stereotypes than we do our sex. The only difference is that these stereotypes are constrained geographically and historically and shift with time and place (although we have no control over that change). Sex is immutable and does not change. The only choice here is whether and how to present ourselves in accordance with those gendered stereotypes, or not; or whether we happen to have no truck whatsoever with regressive, restrictive modes of regulating masculinity and femininity because we recognise that these cause nothing but harm.

It IS possible to be respectful of others without being props to validate their identity at every turn. I want and expect no such validation - I'm not that insecure or given to navel-gazing - and will treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy. This isn't tantamount to saying 'some animals are more equal than others'. A refusal to cede over one's own rights, or to contort our language to fit in with aggressive demands to show 'kindness' whilst those rights are stamped on, are not actions borne of a hate-filled, rampant transphobia. They are the actions of a weak mug, devoid of critical thinking, who whilst disappearing up their own backside in an ever-decreasing purity-spiral are incapable of questioning the harm they might be doing in turn.

As to potential harm, I'd suggest that those people read the Cass report, but their very doctrine of #NoDebate has deadened critical capacity to the point that any concession to safeguarding, of any variety, is instantly labelled 'transphobia'. And when a certain movement repeatedly terms the word 'safeguarding' a dogwhistle, then they are showing the world precisely who they are.

Gender appears to be how a person wants to be seen and thought of and treated.

Where this involves forced speech, gaslighting, bullying, boundary-battering, safeguarding issues etc - no.

What is 'gender'? How does one change it?

And what has that got to do with sex specific spaces or language constructs?

Respect their identity and wishes. Use their preferred name and pronouns

But they can change gender. Hence the name transgender

I'd like to point out that she does not have a brother in law. In law, her husband's sister is, in fact, a woman - and unless she has a GRC, there isn't even a legal fiction.

Pronouns arose in language as a convenient shortcut, saving us the need to use someone's name every time we refer to them. Any policing of language, to try to avoid one's natural use of third person singular pronouns, is a cognitive load on the speaker. Some people can comfortably use "gender based" pronouns, and some can't. Of the latter group, some can comfortably avoid third person pronouns, and some can't. I happen to belong to this third group; my natural use of third person pronouns has always been sex based, or more accurately, based on my perception of the person's sex. "Preferred" pronouns, and attempting to avoid them altogether, both cause me cognitive difficulties. And I do not understand how the idea has spread of "my pronouns" when someone else is speaking. Pronouns, if they belong to anyone, belong to the person using them to express themselves.

This. This would be the last time I would converse with her and would hope she gets some sort of help

I think the approach encouraged now would be to understand the dysphoria as part of broader mental health - considering past abuse for instance.

This was not done at the Tavistock.

The suggestion that one approach fits all - ‘affirmation only’ - suggests deliberate disengagement from usual healthcare protocols.

Definitely this

Why is therapy that isn't 100% affirmation seen as conversion?

I've worked in various MH settings, with people who believe all manner of things that aren't true. (Commonly known as delusions)

These included
That they were the biblical King David.
They were pregnant with God's baby.
They were a woman sometimes and should be allowed to steal clothes from the women in the unit and sit in the women's lounge on those days.
That they were fat and needed to not eat.

In all of these cases we worked as a team with each other and the patient to help them accept that they were provabley none of those things. Admittedly proving that he wasn't King David wasn't that easy, in the same way we can't prove or disprove the existence of God.

But this was never seen as conversion therapy. So why is therapy exploring why a transperson believes something that is demonstrably not true (that they have changed sex) seen to be so?

The actual consensus is that there is very little high quality research in this area, and conclusions can't be drawn.

Record keeping and clinical practice have been of a poor quality, particularly with regard to the lack of interrogation of the recent and sudden increase in young trans identifying females.

She absolutely didn’t say this

you lie about this, what else do you lie about

Transgenderism is conversion therapy. They do it in Iran. If you are a same sex attracted man - which is illegal in Iran - then change to being a woman. Then you can legally be in a 'heterosexual' relationship with a man. It's a solution to a deeply homophobic 'problem'. In the West there is still the driver of internalised homophobia. Someone doesn't want to be gay so they identify as the opposite sex and can be in an opposite sex relationship. Detransitioner Ritchie Herron went through with surgery before he admitted he wasn't a woman , just a man who didn't want to recognise he was gay. Lesbians identifying as men so they aren't lesbians is a classic path to having a trans identity.

It seems the TRAs never want to talk about detransitioners.

There is no objective way to live as a man or be treated as a man unless you are born male and live to adulthood. What you are advocating is an affirmation of a belief in gender identity, similar to insisting on religious belief.

Obviously people are cut out of families because they won't affirm a religious belief, and their families may interpret any departure from orthodoxy as a harmful threat. I don't think that is reasonable, but it is up to the OP to decide where their boundaries lie. Families can and do continue to have good relations despite the individuals having different beliefs.

It is not the psychiatric consensus at all.

If it were, then large numbers of clinicians from the Tavistock would not have been trying to whistleblow.

Also, how does it explain desisters and detransitioners? Or are you trying to erase them.

What about lesbians being told that they must 'learn to cope' with sex with men when they are not sexually attracted to them, and having instructions on how to do straight sex (which are incidentally always all about the pleasure of the man), and being shamed and excluded and actively threatened for wishing to be homosexual instead of obediently homogenderal? I believe Riley Dennis in lecturing on this stated that lesbians with trauma were permitted a short recovery period before being expected to get on with learning to provide this for the greater good.

Is that the sort of conversion therapy that's ok?

How exactly is it conversion therapy? The only people wanting to do any converting are people like you who support this regressive ideology. It’s you who think people are born in the wrong body and should be ‘converted’ to the opposite sex. The women on here don’t believe any of that nonsense and believe people should be given help to live with and love the body they’re born with.

Maybe the truth is 'transphobic' in which case it's is an issue for those crying 'transphobia' to deal with.

The rest of us live in reality, even if TRAs don't.

I realise that's pretty much what you're saying already, but it might be helpful to call out the transphobic nature of reality to illustrate the futility of the TRA battle.

It's the opposite of conversion therapy.

Conversion therapy is designed to make someone what they are not (heterosexual).

What we are talking about is therapy which aims to help someone accept themselves for what they are.

It's an interesting point. What about gay people who opposed gay marriage - either because they saw it as trying to conform with heterosexual social structures or they saw marriage as an oppressive institution with origins in patriarchal religions - as do some feminists? I agree with you that what applies in society isn't necessarily what applies in our personal life - you can have the right to oppose gay marriage in society but would still need to take account of the feelings of your niece and not voice those views at a wedding. The thing with 'trans rights' is not only do they often affect other people's rights but many people are deeply concerned with the harm transgenderism is doing to vulnerable young people. It isn't transphobic to be concerned about someone's mental health and the physical harm that 'gender affirming care' can afflict on the human body and mind. The OP's original post came out of a position of concern for her SIL and also for her immediate family in having to deal with someone who is clearly struggling with their mental health.

My only take on those responses is get in the bloody bin.

YY exactly @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

If trans people find the truth harmful then that is for them to deal with, but it doesn’t make the truth transphobic. No one can be forced to participate in someones else’s delusions about themselves, that’s controlling behaviour.

I agree, and it happens on every thread I've seen of this nature. I find it gives me a physical shock to see the wrong sex pronouns applied, especially when it's so clear that the person seeking advice and support is really troubled and confused and that the trans identity is very new and possibly not going to persist. The militant TRAs home in on that like Dementors crowding round someone who's known grief.

Please help me, my 13yo daughter, ND, bullied at school, diagnosed with anxiety and depression, history of self-harm, suspicions of an eating disorder, is now saying she is really a boy. I don't know what to do.

You must support your son to the hilt! Take your lead from him and buy him a binder.

or:

I am a woman and I've been married for 20 years and we have three children. My husband was in the military when I met him and now works in a very male-dominated field. He is 6'2, powerfully built and plays rugby. Now he has told me that he has always known he was a woman and he intends to transition. I am absolutely blindsided. How do I tell our children, our friends, our families?

If you truly love your wife, you will do whatever it takes to support her through her coming out. Be prepared to cut out from your life anybody who won't affirm your wife's identity. Help your wife learn to apply make-up, plan a few shopping trips together, lend her your Ladyshave!