Women’s Rights Network Scotland has imploded

WRN started off during the covid lockdowns as groups of women who wanted to travel to Scotland to support the women there who were fighting the Scottish government's anti-women, gender woo policies. So it started off as very much a single issue organisation, defending women's single sex spaces.

But it's started to widen its remit as it has grown eg there is a WRN campaign in support of Afghan Women and Girls. One of the guest speakers in the weekly zooms has been from an anti-surrogacy group.

I think it's fine for wider issues affecting women and girls to be discussed and debated in WRN whatsapp groups. You just need to make sure that women respect each other and that the group is well moderated (with admins not censoring debate, just ensuring that disagreements don't become personal).

To be honest, just reading this thread gives an excellent example of why an organisation may limit chat across different topics. If you are a single issue campaign group - protecting the definition of ‘woman’ and therefore women’s spaces- you can’t afford to talk about anything else.

Clearly surrogacy and abortion are off limits.

I can see the desire to keep it very focused and controlled.

It's a company limited by guarantee, which is not-for-profit and directors are not paid. They make money through merch sales and donations from members. Members are not told what the income is spent on as we are not sent an annual report.

I've been a member since 2003, but have only interacted online - living in a remote part of Yorkshire, there are no members near me and WRN doesn't organise get-togethers, but I'm happy to amplify its messages - they do some brilliant work. I'm happy with my online WRN groups - we certainly don't have the issues that they're having in Scotland!

I wonder if I've been getting WRN and Scottish Feminist Network confused - or even possibly some completely different group. I'm not in any group and it was a while ago but I do remember women being frozen out of a women's group in Scotland.

A couple of posters have queried why WRN is a Ltd company and there's generally a very good reason for being an incorporated organisation which is limited liability.

Members of an unincorporated association have unlimited liability for the debts of that association. The liability of Members of a company limited by guarantee is limited to their guarantee which I think for WRN is £1 each.

If you are an organisation that might come under attack from TRAs or subject to legal actions then it is in your best interest to limit your Members exposure to liabilities.

I'm not connected with WRN and don't know their reason for being a Ltd company but I would guess that one factor was the limited liability.

I'm sorry to hear that some women have had unhappy experiences. My personal experience of WRN has been very positive as has that of women from other groups whom I have met in RL.

If anyone feels they have been bullied or witnessed other members being bullied, then please put in a complaint so that the situation can be investigated. There are systems for doing this.

If women just leave because they are unhappy with the way things are run, then there isn't an opportunity for anyone to try and remedy the situation.

100% agree. It's bad.

I’m so sick of people in this movement ready to create drama by bitching about others. Sigh. It’s a waste of time and energy we could be putting to better use.

I am starting to think so 😂😂 I am just saying what my unfortunate experience was of this group. Within a day, I saw a poor woman being bullied out the group after being targeted by two members on the group chat. That was red flag number one after being told they are open to different opinions. This woman was even subjected to name calling.
The chat then turned to late abortion and a woman who had a late abortion was targeted by a Trump supporter (one of the two who bullied the first woman). This Trump supporter gets to stay in the group. Second red flag.
They use Twitter as resources of information and spread nasty propaganda about trans community. They didn't like it when I pointed out how much fake information is on twitter and it's not classed as research. Third red flag.
I ask for info on surrogacy and try to discuss the two sides with information detailing the pros and cons of surrogacy. They don't realise that there are two sides to the argument. I get berated and then get nasty private messages.
Last red flag and I apparently took the huff and left. No I left this toxic environment.

I've attached an extract from their Articles of Association. The directors are unpaid.

Laughable. But you can believe what you like. The DPRK is democratic, the nazis were socialist and any organisation that calls itself a "woman's rights" org is obviously fighting for women's rights.

Gonna set one up myself tomorrow actually. We're gonna be called the "Women's rights foundation" and we're gonna protect women and children by campaigning to give free parking to people of native british descent. I think Posie Parker will love it.

Tiger and John - you two know each other from WRN in real life?

i don’t think I have seen that on MN before!

Your opinion and you are entitled to it. But if an organisation states they are open to discussion and others opinions but then berate and bully people who disagree with them (including being nasty to a woman who had a late abortion and including the PMs of abuse I got that "made me go in a huff" when all I did was express an opinion) then I want nothing to do with them. Classy women to say the least.

I didn't know this but explains things that I found confusing. Because I somehow assumed that it was a feminist network that wanted to focus on women being able to connect locally and have local actions.

And as with the early days of Women's Liberation which was a loose network of local women's groups (CR and other wise), local groups then created their own focus. And an attempt by the central admin office (Women's Liberation Workshop) was quickly opposed.

So maybe out of this women who have been able to connect locally will just carry on in whatever way suits them.

It might have helped if from the start WRN had been clearer about not just their objectives and how they thought this should be done.

Only saying this because I do know of quite a few women who had thought they wanted to join but got alienated.

Not that i think prioritising women's safety isn't important, but there must be a way of doing this without then using that mechanism to be a contral mechanism.

I am PAYE so I don’t really understand this, excuse my ignorance, but this means WRN is for profit? The directors get paid?

How do they make their money? Through merch?

There's no two sides to renting wombs and buying babies.

Ooh a drive by scolding. I can tick that off my bingo card for today!
Thanks @MothPosts

I am entitled to my opinion and I watched another member get bullied out the group. Two sides to every story. If you want to call getting berated out a group taking a huff then fine.

Hahaha MothPosts. Pull the other one mate.

No, most of the women were broad across various political persuasions. Also politics was not allowed to be discussed anyway, the main aims being protecting women's rights.

"Far right" aye ok. And also, nobody was raking in money. Would have been nice!!!

I think @MothPosts is a tad misinformed. WRN is for women and children. It was set up to protect women’s rights and the safeguarding of children.

WRN is not anti anything .
WRN is for women.

No. Apart from the need for vetting, nothing else in common. Scottish Feminist Network is not a charity or a limited company, just a grassroots women's network.

You thought surrogacy is OK, not surprising no one agreed.
You got the huff and left.
No woman who actually cares about other women supports surrogacy.
If that's close minded then I'm happy to be it.

I'm not going to comment beyond what I've already said. I trust everyone involved to be adult about whatever happened and sort it out.

Is your group's chat moderated? My friend in Glasgow says WRNS admins jumped in all the time to remind them which topics were off the table and frequently reposted the rules.

Here comes the lamenting and navel-gazing👆