How to talk about 'trans-girl' in my son's class.

That’s horrendous @user1471471849. Illegal indoctrination of a whole school.

What an utterly ridiculous response - especially arguing with you: a school governor.

I know you most probably aren't actually a school governor, but going by their own silly rules, it's a human right for you to call yourself one and be treated accordingly... right?

You really have no idea what I mean. Clearly.

In fairness this thread had been in chat and survived in chat for some considerable time since it was started. (It's surprised me as normally threads get shunted off her sooner - I have been keeping an eye).

Look at the title on the forum.

Women's rights.

Trans identified women really cause remarkably little issues to women's rights: that would be entirely the trans identified men.

You do not mean what you say in that its 'polite' to address a person how they wish to be addressed, or you'd be supporting women in saying no to being called 'cis', called sexual racists for being homosexual instead of 'queer', saying reality exists and respecting their right to single sex spaces.

What you mean is that nice women teach their children to be submissive to trans people. And since this doesn't really have much impact on boys, the real issue is teaching young girls to be submissive to boys and men, and not have boundaries that those male people may find inconvenient.

That is obviously a bit of an issue to women here to talk about women's rights.

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be enough to address people how they wish to be addressed. That would be simply using their name and the pronouns you/your etc.

That is quite different to expecting people to refer to others in a factually incorrect way. People cannot change sex. In the English language, pronouns are used to differentiate between female and male people. Asking people to use language that contravenes that is not a reasonable expectation.

Oops irish people know these women are part of the community.

The Irish state allows irish women to opt for self ID and opt out of womens health care and into the mens prison system. Is that nice or not?

And it was a vocal (in not a nice way) woman who wants to be a man who demanded the health service remove the word women from womens healthcare. The timing was offensive. The breach of the Plain English provision creates harm in the public health system.

The OP clearly stated the school wants the OPs child to believe the boy is now a girl.

“it is very normal to simply teach your children it is polite to address a person how they wish to be addressed.”

This is not quite the truth, though. In fact, this is dishonest.

It is not just using a chosen name. It is demanded language to support someone else’s philosophical belief.

It is dishonest to position it as being politeness to ‘address a person how they wish to be addressed.’ And again it is only in one direction, it is not giving any consideration to any one else’s needs here.

This is not kind.

I'm not sure where you're getting this 'sole reason TG exists' idea. Literally no one is saying that.

But actions have consequences. If we allow men to 'self identify' as women, then we will end up with men in women's prisons, sports, domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centre, etc, etc. Is that something you're onboard with? What about the women who will suffer?

And as for 'addressing people how they wish to be addressed' - well no. I can't compel anyone to call me 'her royal highness' or curtsey when they see me. They'd just laugh in my face and rightly so, because it's not good for society to try and get people to ignore reality.

Went off at the deep end there!

Trans men exist too, they are half of the transgender community and obviously don't want to harm women. The fact that there are transgender people in the world isn't all about getting men into women's prisons or abusing women but the posters here actually like that is the sole reason transgenderism exists.

No one is asking children to believe anything, it is very normal to simply teach your children it is polite to address a person how they wish to be addressed.

So true! Like schools sitting girls next to naughty boys to try and modify the boys behaviour.

Still happening in my kids’ school.

What? Gaslight kids into denying reality in order to indulge mendacious and entitled, anti science ideological activists, like. And, this interference in any child’s development is criminal. Or, should be. Let’s not harm Irish children any more, eh.

Sex is immutable, and pretending men aren’t actually men is not kind and will be worse for Irish women and girls. Even if they don’t fall for this ideology. The State is creating an environment where Irish women and girls will be uncaringly placed in situations where any man, so inclined, is given carte Blanche to abuse them. Even places where very vulnerable women who have been victims of male violence are served up to any male who wishes to have access to them in refuges, hospitals, and prisons. Also to any man who wishes to f^ck around with women’s sports, supposedly women’s groups and pretend they form part of female representation. Not to mention the anti science rubbish that is now being imposed on impressionable young minds in schools. Are they teaching about ‘flat earthism’ in Geography? And, the sun revolving around the earth? Why this particular anti science nonsense?

I thought we’d left all that behind. For a decade or two. But no; there is a new and even more misogynistic belief system in town! Now we have Irish women locked up with men who get to threaten to rape them. Without consequence. It’s a very kind ideology, isn’t it? Ah sure, as long as the lads get to do what they want to women again. That is the important thing. Not just the new priests pushing this bs, There are again many new nuns and Mother Mary Margarets to police women and to promote men’s desires.

Now it is not ‘harlot’, but unkind bigot when women won’t follow this new men’s entitlement ideology.

It is emotional manipulation.

If you are on TRSOH you must believe this.
If you are a good person, you will place this lie above the truth.
If you are a good person you will place this single child's feelings above all the others.

Yet, the good people will be pressing for the ban on puberty blockers to be lifted, they will want to send this boy down the 'Dutch protocol' route to affirm his identity.

We haven't even touched on the specific damage this does to the girls in the class.

Agree. Compelled speech. Doesn’t the school want children to learn to tell the truth?

“Is it being a 'good person' to be an enabler?”

I think this exactly what people who are prioritising what is effectively one child’s demands to have their belief affirmed over anyone else.

I believe that some people fully support children being a support resource for others. Once you see this, you cannot mistake it.

Mmn.

Is this a lovely universal value applied equally to all, or is this putting a nice modern pretty gloss on the coercion, high demand, privilege and bullying going on underneath? A bit of marketing manipulation?

Who exactly has to do the thinking about and caring for others?

When those with the TQ+ identity are the ones worrying about and carefully stepping around others' feelings to be able to speak their own perceptions and 'truth' and 'live authentically', and they are being 'kind' to those uncomfortable or unable to indulge and enable someone else's personal reality, and they are the ones worrying about caring about those who believe in biological reality and ensuring they can say so freely? Then I might believe this.

Otherwise it is a fantastically cynical thing that destroys any lingering good values and makes nonsense of them. 'Be kind' is just a fig leaf over 'obey your betters' when it is used to force compliance, and when you unpick it further it is largely about relying on those with a social conscience and empathy to enable those who feel entitled to not have to bother with it.

Is it being a 'good person' to be an enabler?

As an aside - absolutely this. Gender ideology and the bullying trans activists have done so much harm to the interests of disabled people.

Some of the vast sums of money sucked up by GI will have been diverted away from improving provision and support for the disabled. Who remembers the many rainbow wrapped trains for Pride month while accessibility for trains remains woeful?

Also the autism charities co opted into working against the interests of autistic people and promoting GI to a vulnerable audience who often view it as a simple explanation for their feelings. Until they realise it isn’t. But they have already harmed themselves.

Then there is the direct bullying of vulnerable disabled people as you mention. There are so many examples.

Yes it is.

Anyone, now, with a child of that age 'identifying as trans', should be looking either at their own behaviour or what the hell is going on around them.

Anyone celebrating it, defending it or seeking other children to agree with it should be facing significant scrutiny.

Kids can think they are girls, boys, fire engines, Pokémon, cats, unicorns whatever. Cute, who cares.

As parents, we should also be equipped with saying no when appropriate.

And knowing that saying 'no, you aren't actually a fire engine' isn't bloody unkind.

Pretending that men can become women is an appalling development for society.

Anyone who cares for women would not be advocating for this nonsense.

I remember when the TRAs had a meltdown because someone with Down's Syndrome used sex-based pronouns for a trans identified person. The trans identified person then went online and moaned about how awful this was. The TRAs made it quite clear that having a disability that might make it challenging to use wrong-sex pronouns was not an acceptable excuse.

That was the day that my final fuck died. No-one should be forced to go along with this lie. The more people say 'no' the easier it will be for people with disablilities that make that kind of pretence really hard.

So there we go, Sugar. I care alot about people with disabilites and I don't want them to be piled on by TRAs.

Even more so Betty, it is like having to refer to that child as being too thin any time they referred to them.

It is expecting the child to directly lie to keep someone happy. For how many people per day should a child be expected, emotionally manipulated, to do this? Why is this acceptable?

I actually do care about the child being lied to.

I think it's vastly more upsetting for Richie Herron waking up after having his genitals removed by those 'so bloody kind' crew than to the child who is told no, you can't change sex, but dress as you like, you're wonderful as you are.

Good people care if they realise that not upsetting people is not the main goal. Keeping children safe from irreversible and horrendous harm is much more important.