Simone Biles attacks Riley Gaines

Wouldn't you agree that most people on FWR probably support women's right tp a career or to be a SAHM, are GC & pro choice, oppose porn & all the other stuff I said?

Apologies. I worded that poorly. I meant more the comments (here to a lesser extent and on other platforms) along the lines of 'she's always been a nasty wee thing', where there's no evidence that she's previously gone on the attack like this against other women's looks/height etc.

Biles' comments about Gaines' looks are unpleasant and the comments about Gaines height are just odd (and it seems, factually incorrect).

Interestingly, Simone Biles' X account profile describes her as "Wife. Olympic Champion".

I'm intrigued by this. It sounds almost trad wife to put "wife" in there, never mind before " Olympic Champion". I wonder what she was trying to convey.

I would have thought she was trying to come across as pretty conservative. But here she is taking the liberal position on trans sports.

Riley Gaines is married but it isn't in her profile.

It is all pretty strange imo.

It is. Yesterday she retweeted the first message criticising Riley, but not the height one. But nothing else. Whereas Riley made some content directly addressing Simone, on multiple platforms.

It would be interesting to know whether Simone has now found out that her trans category proposal is a no goer. Looking around on social media, she was getting a lot of grace for that from people who appreciated her having a go at RG and who felt sure she'd come around to full self ID in sport in time.

But the personal attack was nasty. She likened Riley's body to that of a man's, in a way clearly meant to be insulting (and not just to Riley, given that most TW will be over five five).

And actually, Simone's view on males in female sports is still not very coherent. She seems to want a magic third solution, didn't know why this isn't considered acceptable by the people she sees herself as defending, and has yet to tell us what she thinks should happen when these third categories don't work.

We know more about Simone's feelings on mannish appearance and the acceptability of pointing this out (she can do it, other people shouldn't) then we do about her opinion on males in female sports. That's her choice.

I believe that some people are calling out Simone Biles’s personal attack when they refer to nasty. It was not just a disagreement. It really was a personal attack and the body shaming was hypocritical considering I believe that Biles had done some excellent previous work about body shaming athletes.

Agreed.

I am also uncomfortable with people calling Biles vile or nasty. I disagree with her on the issue of the inclusion of males in women's sports but she is allowed her own opinion, even if I think that it shows a lack of background knowledge around the issue.

(Edited to clarify that the issue I am referring to is males being included in female sports)

Quite. Still, we get a bonus definition of 'the majority FWR brand of feminism'.

So, to clarify....

'Gaines is evil and has said hateful things about LGB people. You need to educate yourselves!!!'

'Evidence please'

'Podcast, something some dude said 13 years ago and Wikipedia (of all things) links'

'Podcast doesn't say that'

'Ah, I haven't actually listened to it'

Fuck me.

I hope not. I've admired her since I was a kid watching the Rio Olympics. She always seemed pleasant, it's an odd outburst so suddenly. Fine way to kick off what may well be her retirement!

Her podcast is pretty influential among US women & she's supposed to have some influence on Trump. He has certainly praised her. So arguably her other views have significance as she promotes them via her podcast. To be fair, the majority focuses on sport issues or general religion/family content. I imagine the sport stuff is the main draw for women who are interested.

Goodness, I've said multiple times from the start that I support Gaines' trans campaign and I support GC alliance with her. I respect her determination, as I've said... Likewise, ofc it' good that here we can discuss and disagree rather than getting banned for views as happens on Reddit.

She hasn't done anything else. I have followed her success and watched the Netflix documentary and all she has done up to this point is be amazing at her sport and supportive to her team mates, not to mention speaking up about sexual abuse. The poster who called her a 'vicious thing' needs to look at herself and exactly why she thinks that on no evidence whatsoever.

So, she's not strongly in favour of abortion rights, but that has that got nothing to do with males competing in female events.

Why do people need to analyse her every position on every issue. She's not standing for election, She 's just speaking out on behalf of female sport and female dignity.

Yes, that's vile.

It's also stupid, because it's so obviously unreasonable that people who want men in women's sports can use it to try and discredit criticism. I don't know what the fuck some people are thinking.

Wow, Biles is wrong on the trans issue but I am disgusted that people are blaming her for not speaking up on Nassar sooner. This is unacceptable victim blaming. Imagine having to talk about childhood sexual abuse in front of the world's media - incredibly brave and something you can only do when you are ready.

To add though, I think nearly all here support her stance on trans and respect her bravery in the face of intimidation.

On this thread some have criticised her anti abortion stance. I criticised her as I believed she was anti lgb rights, but now it is less clear given more info.

Yes, some did stupidly single her race out, but others criticised views rather than race or being a Republican.

I could have said 'seems feminist on many issues'. I'm using 'pro woman' and 'feminist' interchangeably, although I sense that Gaines would feel happier saying she is pro woman than a feminist, as I think she is worried that modern feminists stress careers to much, judging by one episode I read the blurb of.

I am well acquainted with conservative feminism, actually: I regularly read a variety of right wing feminist or just female-authored publications to get a range of views, ranging from right- libertarian to conservative Catholic.

When I use the term feminist here, I'm referring to the majority FWR brand, which has some crossover w the most-publicised kinds, but also major differences : supportive of women's careers but also their right to be SAHM, pro choice and birth control if wanted, supportive of lesbian rights, gender critical, supportive of the most vulnerable kinds of women : eg. victims of violence, anti porn & prostitution, anti surrogacy, or at least v sceptical.

Yes, feminism can mean many different things, but I'm using it here to mean the majority view of FWR. All These views could be held theoretically by right wing women, though abortion, birth control & lesbian rights would be an issue for at least some factions, as could the role of careers.

Maybe, but when people become tribally aligned they often fall into familiar and comfortable grooves and narratives. There is no consistency or logic.

What would you say is the difference between between being very 'pro woman' and being 'a feminist'? Is 'feminism' holding to a certain ideological stance with definite articles of faith? Can you only be a feminist if you identify as Left wing and/or vote Democrat/Labour? What might conservative feminism look like....and do you consider it even possible?

Though I'd be surprised if some of the people Simone is around, including other black athletes in her and her husband's peer group, aren't Republicans.

But isn't she just being criticised for being white and Republican - as if this somehow discredits her stance on men in women's sports and spaces?