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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Preferred pronouns

37 replies

Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 04/06/2025 12:34

Some of you may remember my recent thread.

As I had said in that thread, I have never hidden my views on the gender debate. There is a TiM in my company, to whom I’m as pleasant as I am to everyone else. I am careful to use no pronouns at all around him, his team or the wider company. But in my small team I do occasionally use “he”. It is not intentional but just less mentally taxing than anything else.

I have today been told by my manager, after an email exchange just between the two of us, that I “must” use she and not he because that is what this person wants. Following this, that I “did not want to face an HR issue”.

In all honesty, at first I was angry but now I’m upset. I point blank refused to use the wrong pronouns, pointed out the Maya Forstater case, the SC ruling (not directly relevant but adds weight to my views), said that this man would have no complaint about me. But ultimately have said I will not use any pronouns for this man within my team either.

I feel really upset now. Rather like I’ve been told off and made to feel like I’m petulantly digging my heels in for no reason. And the HR thing felt mildly threatening although I’m positive it wasn’t meant that way. I cannot bear being told that I must enforce a lie in order to not be in trouble (I’m autistic so my sense of injustice is strong!).

I don’t know why I’m posting this except to know I’m not insane. Plus if anyone has anything clever I can keep in my back pocket or advice about how to proceed (have I done the wrong thing?) I would be grateful to hear it.

Thank you!

OP posts:
Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 04/06/2025 13:13

Yes this has always been my concern and why I’ve been careful to NEVER air my views or “misgender “ (🙄) him around him or his team. I’ve been very careful to be pleasant and courteous, the same as I would with anyone (because why wouldn’t I be?). I just do not see how me using he or him in an email to my manager, which he will never see, could remotely be construed as harassment or an HR violation.

Which I said to my manager!

OP posts:
OneGreyScroller · 04/06/2025 13:04

Be very careful with this. We are okay here, but this can cross over into harassment territory and people have lost tribunals in the past:

BBC News - Gender-critical Swindon teacher loses employment tribunal case - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-68681038

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-49904997

Forstater clarified that GC beliefs are worthy of respect, but this doesn't always protect manifestation of beliefs.

Kevin Lister

Gender-critical Swindon teacher loses employment tribunal case

An employment tribunal finds against Kevin Lister, who refused to use a pupil's preferred pronouns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-68681038

orangegato · 04/06/2025 13:04

You didn’t ‘misgender’ anyone. Gender is made up, you were referring to his sex which is male.

Gender identity is pure fantasy and I won’t refer to it either. Fuck em.

Shortshriftandlethal · 04/06/2025 13:03

Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 04/06/2025 12:42

But if it’s not gone to HR, it’s just me being told I must use preferred pronouns, what should I ask of HR?

That you also are an employee with just as much right to respect and your own integrity as any other employee. Being threatened with HR makes it seem like a punishment.

TangenitalContrivences · 04/06/2025 12:58

Thelnebriati · 04/06/2025 12:50

IDK how you feel about this but this situation could be described as a clash between two competing protected characteristics, gender reassignment and disability.
Autism counts as a disability; the effect autism has on you might include difficulty with lying and a strong sense of injustice when other people misuse rules or falsely accuse you of wrong doing.

It's really not. Nobody has the power to compel your speech or to compel you to lie.

I'm Autistic. I give zero shits about other peoples opinions. It sometimes gets me into trouble..

TangenitalContrivences · 04/06/2025 12:56

Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 04/06/2025 12:42

But if it’s not gone to HR, it’s just me being told I must use preferred pronouns, what should I ask of HR?

I'd ask them to write down what you are being asked to do formally.

akkakk · 04/06/2025 12:52

I would reply with a barely disguised sarcasm:

'Ha ha - great joke... thank you... I assume that you are not serious in the light of the recent Supreme Court judgement that a man is a man / a woman is a woman and neither can change biological sex? Presumably you also know of the Forstater judgement which confirms that a Gender Critical view (that biology is true and immutable) is a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act - a desire to use incorrect pronouns is not protected.'

'I am sure that no-one would want the company to get into trouble with the law, so I am happy on this occasion to pretend that I didn't receive an email telling me to break the law - it goes without saying that I will always be courteous to and respect any colleague, but you need to think carefully before sending out emails like this which directly breach the Equality Act.'

etc.

Thelnebriati · 04/06/2025 12:50

IDK how you feel about this but this situation could be described as a clash between two competing protected characteristics, gender reassignment and disability.
Autism counts as a disability; the effect autism has on you might include difficulty with lying and a strong sense of injustice when other people misuse rules or falsely accuse you of wrong doing.

Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 04/06/2025 12:43

Brefugee · 04/06/2025 12:41

keep all the emails, print them out and take them home.

Do you really need to keep your job, and keep working? carry on as you are.

Do you need to keep your job, or possibly get another? simply keep quiet, and ever use pronouns. Keep using their full name if necessary. Don't rock the boat and jeopardise your future.

Yes this is somewhat my mindset. Just keep using his full name (however clunky it is) and keep hold of the correspondence on this as back up.

OP posts:
Nomorebullshitnotavailable · 04/06/2025 12:42

But if it’s not gone to HR, it’s just me being told I must use preferred pronouns, what should I ask of HR?

OP posts:
Brefugee · 04/06/2025 12:41

keep all the emails, print them out and take them home.

Do you really need to keep your job, and keep working? carry on as you are.

Do you need to keep your job, or possibly get another? simply keep quiet, and ever use pronouns. Keep using their full name if necessary. Don't rock the boat and jeopardise your future.

TangenitalContrivences · 04/06/2025 12:39

Get something in writing from HR....

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