Flags removed ahead of Pride event = hate crime?

I think it's clear that there are differing views on this.

The diametrically opposed slogans "Get the L out" and "No LGB without the T" demonstrate this perfectly.

Personally I find the slogan "No LGB without the T" absolutely horrifying, because if some LGB people feel that they have nothing in common with the T and that T activism is in fact detrimental to their own interests, who the hell is anyone else to tell them they can't organise themselves and campaign without the T? Telling them they can't is clearly oppressive.

I am also minded of the Mermaids V Charity Commission and LGB Alliance tribunal hearing, where the chairman of the LGBT Consortium (which represents over 300 LGBT organisations in the UK) confirmed that none of the organisations under its umbrella recognised a sex specific definition of the words "gay" and "lesbian", and that any organisation which believes that gay men are biological males who are exclusively sexually attracted to other biological males and lesbians are biological females who are exclusively sexually attracted to other biological females would not be welcome among their number.

Let's all take a moment to reflect on the fact that there is room in the UK for over 300 LGBT rights associations (which all apparently believe that some lesbians have penises and anyone who disagrees is a bigot), but not room for even one LGB association, which must be hounded out of existence.

Tell me how that's not homophobic.

Except the SC case was brought by lesbians and the judge ruled effectively that there were homophobic tones to attempts to make sex, not reflective of biological sex.

The Cass Review found similar and there are various LGB groups who are extremely concerned about 'transing away the gay'.

So I don't actually know where you get off saying that there's a close alignment of views, because it's really not anywhere near that clear cut.

Wahey, we've got spewing and hateful. That's a bingo!

Pride has been hijacked by the TQ+ section. I'm all for LGB pride.

If a trans activist can define what a gay person is without using their homophobic gender version, then there might be a homophobia issue with removing a flag.

I look forward to such a non-homophobic definition from you @suggestionsplease1 .

Ok, that’s your prerogative. I guess there are some women also happy to support people dismantling their own rights as well. Just like some women fought against the Suffragettes. As they say, it takes all sorts.

Out of interest, what ‘hateful rhetoric’ have you seen on here?

Well, I don't know.

I would generally say that people should politely counter argue flag displays they disagree with, rather than ripping them down under cover of darkness.

Maybe this was just teenagers? My own young adult dc are eye rollers, not vandals, but the 'progress flag' does seem to be increasingly disliked by their peer group, because of its homophobic connotations.

Meanwhile, I'm sure PPs who are convinced this was a hate crime would be equally aghast if suffragette flags or Let Women Speak posters or the dictionary definition of woman were being defaced, vandalised or pulled down, right? Right...?

There are very strong levels of affinity and respect between gay people and trans people.

Except for the people excluding lesbians and gay men from Pride marches because they know that LGB are sexual orientations, and the lesbians won’t date people with penises that call themselves lesbians. No affinity or respect from trans people towards gay people there.

Many people who identify as trans have previously thought of themselves as gay

Except for the very large cohort of trans people, mostly born male that are heterosexual and would very much like to sleep with lesbians. They might think of themselves as gay ie lesbian but they are clearly not.

We know there are concerted online efforts to 'divide and conquer' LGBT communities in order to weaken us all.

No. Many LGB people are trying to reverse the damage done to public feelings towards them by the trans lobby steamrollering everyone’s rights and demanding privileges such as men being placed in women’s prisons or getting to expose themselves to women in changing rooms. (See other thread on this board).

I tend to think Mumsnet regulars are more intelligent than to fall for it however.

I think you’ll find that most Mumsnet regulars are far too intelligent to fall for the lies and gaslighting we are constantly being subjected to. Thankfully, as we are becoming less censored in general society and with the government realising the depth of the problem, it is easier to explain the issues and more people are aware and don’t like it. The truth is spreading.

The trans people I know are much nicer that the FWR posters spewing hateful rhetoric here; I have no hesitation whatsoever in wanting to support them.

Seeing as the ‘progress’ Pride flag IS homophobic I fail to see how that follows.

It’s a shame the trans lobby are so virulently homophobic while piggybacking on the fight for gay rights and antagonising much of the country by dismantling women’s rights and safeguarding of children.

Remind me why you support them again, as a gay person?

There are very strong levels of affinity and respect between gay people and trans people. The discrimination and prejudice we experience has similar roots.
Many people who identify as trans have previously thought of themselves as gay and we recognise and understand the complex journeys that others go through.

We know there are concerted online efforts to 'divide and conquer' LGBT communities in order to weaken us all. We have access to briefings about this process within groups, as they are not as careful as they think they are 😂

Mumsnet is a case in point, fertile ground for others to sew these seeds and hope a few take root. I tend to think Mumsnet regulars are more intelligent than to fall for it however.

@suggestionsplease1 ah, you are the spokesperson for ALL gay and lesbian people? Your opinion is as one? Good to know!!

No. This is from observation and listening to their own words. You may have missed several Pride orgs organisations making public statements banning ‘LGB’ views and supporters. They’ve been doing this for years.

The trans movement which has taken over Pride is eye wateringly homophobic. Why are you supporting that?

FWR is populated by many who make wild and untrue statements that gay people don't support Pride or the rainbow flag etc, that is of course because there is an agenda at work here.

None of this is true on the ground, in our communities.

You can often identify this happening - the person making statements will get confused through their post...firstly claiming an identity as LGB and later saying 'they this/they that' a grammatical slip highlighting they are not in fact an LGB person. They will also eg. refer to 'homosexuals' which no gay person would be happy to do.

Many people claim that the St George's cross has been re-purposed as a "far-right" symbol, the gay pride flag has also been re-purposed as an anti-sex realist flag.

I see the flags as little more than virtue signalling, particularly as I know many of the police forces are happy to fly the flag whilst suffering from institutional homophobia where actual hate crimes against real gay people are ignored.

The trouble is that a lot of the people happy to fly the flag are actually homophobic, and a lot of gay people I know don't care one bit for Pride.

I am am I? I've seen FWR encourage and offer advice on the successful defacement of Pride flags, which is a crime.

Oh give over. You really are clutching at straws

You've maybe not been reading FWR enough? It takes every opportunity to progress from transphobia to homophobia.

How on earth is physical sexual assault as serious as hurty feelz?! 😱😭

Why is this in this sub topic? It has absolutely nothing to do with feminism or women’s rights.

Leaving a flag would be littering.

Pathetic

Oh, did the police remove them then? I am glad, but surprised, the police recognised the homophobic misogynistic divisive pride flags for what they are.