Are toilets still allowed to be cleaned by members of the opposite sex?

They aren’t concerned about trans people in the toilets, they are only concerned about men?

Sorry, what? I thought half of the nation were currently terrified by trans folk in the toilet? I thought that was the entire issue? I didn’t realise it was just exclusively men, and didn’t realise how many men were just waltzing into the loos. Never seen one, personally?

Trans women and men who aren't trans are equally likely to have tried to get a job with access to women's loos in order to abuse women (see the examples upthread of the two male cleaners who placed cameras in women's space). In general we rely on the extra protections of the process of employment and the ties that employment brings to mitigate the risk. You are right that risk for women is still increased when men, whether trans identified or not, clean women's public toilets, but since it is logistically difficult to have same sex staff in many cases and such a requirement would probably lead to fewer toilets, it's not something that women have campaigned on. Most companies use a "Male Cleaners" sign to warn women so they can check.

There would be no particular point in insisting on a "Trans Cleaners" sign if the cleaner happened to be a trans, because women aren't concerned about trans people being in their toilets, they're concerned about men. A male cleaners sign conveys the risk clearly and is applicable regardless of a man's gender identity.

I'm just glad that the Supreme Court banned women who're pregnant with a male foetus from female spaces. Thank you Lord Justices for your clarity.

I sincerely hope you are joking! Very difficult to tell on this thread

I took that as a joke.

Given how nailing down anything that could possibly be male within 500 yards is the argument du jour

I'm just glad that the Supreme Court banned women who're pregnant with a male foetus from female spaces. Thank you Lord Justices for your clarity.

I'm just glad that the Supreme Court banned women who're pregnant with a male foetus from female spaces. Thank you Lord Justices for your clarity.

🙄
Recent history is not that long ago and I'm not going to dig it up (out of respect) .

If you don't know how being afraid of anyone having a lanyard and looking authoritative is the same as being afraid some might be rogue officers and ex-officers then that's your own problem.

Yes ideally we'd have the correct cleaners in the right sex toilets but needing workable solutions shouldn't move society to the conclusion that men have every right to walk into the women's whenever they feel like a spinny skirt or if they castrate themselves.

DeepGreyFox

I would guess it's more about reacting to the singular lack of empathy, affinity, or it would appear, any knowledge, of women's need for privacy (from that poster).

Most women would totally understand the standard scenario where you would go off to the loo, to avoid a handsy bloke, or an aggressive ex-boyfriend.

When someone frames it as 'running to the bathroom to escape', well, I don't know about anyone else, but to me, it just indicates a person who's never had to do any of these things.

Coupled with trying to manufacture a gotcha about a male cleaner just means that everyone gets down into the most minute of details to defend something that is completely self fucking evident to women in general.

And yes, I completely agree this thread is ridiculous.

But this is where we're at.

Toddler boys, male cleaners, and you can't eliminate risk, so why bother mitigating any of it. A ha!!

And this is why, in all conscience, women have to be constantly alert. Because some people will do anything to get to them.

Yes no worries, we agree!! I think the poster is desperately trying to make a point which clearly doesn't stack up and is being deliberately obtuse for the sake of it.

And you have seen “a woman running into a bathroom to escape a man and therefore shouldn’t see a man in the bathroom” as a scenario. Not a woman in say, a night club or pub, walking into a toilet to avoid a particular man who is bothering them?

There is quite a difference in urgency and a difference in needs.

And yes, women DO have blood on them and are sometimes half undressed. What is the significance of these situations to having a male cleaner enter? I would expect a male cleaner would announce they are about to enter, wouldn't you think? And that would give a woman or girl time to prepare?

Do you also think that if a woman entered a toilet and found a male cleaner, she could reasonably ask that cleaner to wait outside if needed?

DeepGreyFox

I would guess it's more about reacting to the singular lack of empathy, affinity, or it would appear, any knowledge, of women's need for privacy (from that poster).

Most women would totally understand the standard scenario where you would go off to the loo, to avoid a handsy bloke, or an aggressive ex-boyfriend.

When someone frames it as 'running to the bathroom to escape', well, I don't know about anyone else, but to me, it just indicates a person who's never had to do any of these things.

Coupled with trying to manufacture a gotcha about a male cleaner just means that everyone gets down into the most minute of details to defend something that is completely self fucking evident to women in general.

And yes, I completely agree this thread is ridiculous.

But this is where we're at.

Toddler boys, male cleaners, and you can't eliminate risk, so why bother mitigating any of it. A ha!!

And this is why, in all conscience, women have to be constantly alert. Because some people will do anything to get to them.

Apologies, I have just seen this.

It seems you would agree about how male cleaners work.

I suspect though that the poster saying “a woman running into a bathroom to escape a man and therefore shouldn’t see a man in the bathroom” is over dramatising what has been mentioned. As I said, there is a significant difference between “a woman running into a bathroom to escape a man and therefore shouldn’t see a man in the bathroom” and one entering into a pub or nightclub toilet to avoid a man. Particularly since in those venues at that time there is not likely to be a male cleaner active.

But it seems to be an over catastrophised interpretation of what has been used in the past as a reason for wanting no male people in a toilet, while also avoiding the fact it is likely to be able to ask any male cleaner to leave temporarily.

Yes as I said I think the whole premise of this thread is ridiculous and I'm sure a male cleaner would make themselves known and leave if asked. Someone was saying that the points that the poster raised had never been presented as scenarios on here and I just said that I had actually seen similar scenarios pointed out on here a few times. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that women could have blood on them, be undressed, run to the toilets when feeling ill or perhaps scared or any number of things. It's often pointed out that the ladies can be a haven for women. And with that I think I'll stop reading this thread because the twists and turns are doing my head in!!

The whole thread is peculiar!! Not saying any person in particular has said those things, just saying I have seen it given as reasons men shouldn't be in the loos. I don't get this whole palaver about male cleaners as has been pointed out many times there are warning signs put up and some people can't be picky about what job they do, you basically have to do what your manager tells you