Are toilets still allowed to be cleaned by members of the opposite sex?

And yet it does. Most men do not go in women's toilets, purely because it's not acceptable in society. Social rules are strong.

Your contention is that because some men flash people (largely women and girls though - do you have any reason to think they'll flash men the same amount?), we should let adult men into the women's (where previously there was no flashing at all due to the total lack of adult penis), and send small boys into the mens where they can also be flashed?

You think that grown men dressed somewhat unusually are more in-need of protection from flashing than women and children?

Women get assaulted so let's make it easier for them to get assaulted is a pretty awful take if you don't mind me saying so.

But what about the experiences of the women who works as a toilet cleaner and has been flashed several times? A trans woman should have to go through that every single time they need to use a public toilet?
But that’s justified because us cis women couldn’t possibly share a toilet with a trans woman (who despite being more likely than the average woman to be a sex offender, is still very unlikely to be one) once or twice in our lifetime?
I was assaulted by a man on a busy tram. A door with the symbol of a woman on it isn’t going to stop anyone.

Because I want to be in charge of whether I have a man in close proximity to me when I’m partially dressed

I don’t consent to some bloke either deceiving or bullying his way into the ladies. It’s really not hard to understand

cleaner doing his job-probably fine
creepy chap who doesn’t understand consent-no thanks

allowing any kind of males into women's loos (except when women are warned that a male worker is doing there to do an essential job, such as cleaning) puts women at risk. All men are a potential risk. Whether they're pretending to be women or not. That's why we have single spaces.

Do you seriously think single sex spaces are just for affirming womanhood?

It’s still a very small percentage of women that are trans though, and an even smaller number that are sex offenders. I’ve definitely seen more male toilet cleaners than trans women in toilets. So if trans women and men are just as likely as each other to be sex offenders why is one okay but not the other?

QED

Children can't enter into contracts - as many people have said, they are not the service user in many cases, the adult accompanying them is.

I agree that most men's toilets are perfectly fine, and if they're not, then I don't let my kids in them. They would be as perfectly safe for a bloke dressed in a feminine manner as they would be for my 11 year old.

My sons have used the gents since they were 8 or so. Basically since I was happy to let them be independent for 10 minutes or so. So far so good.

I genuinely don’t think men’s loos are dangerous in general (you can tell ‘cos I let my kids go in them). I still don’t want blokes (even ‘lovely’ ones, even ones in frocks) in close proximity to me when I’m partially dressed

stay out of the Ladies fellas. They’re not for you

All kudos goes to @MyAmpleSheep . I was only requoting her as I am fully aware of the TRA tactic of claiming "no explanation given" just after the explanation...

They constantly weave a tangled web of feigned ignorance.

I agree with you. And if I’d read to the end of the thread before posting I would not have needed to make the same point myself.

Ah, here's yet more threat - if we don't let the men in, then the little boys will have to go in the dangerous men's toilets.

If we let the men in, then what makes the ladies any safer?

Exactly how dangerous are men's toilets? My boys go in them alone now they're older - they did since they were 8 or 9, they are clearly more vulnerable than an adult, yet you're happy with them going in the mens, but not actual men?

To add to this helpful analysis, in the case of the young boy child, he is not a service user in his own right. He is, in effect, a non-independent appendage of his parent, so needs to go in the toilet for the relevant parent’s sex. It is the parent who is the service user, not the child.

Call me crazy, but I'm not here to make easier for them.

Just as I'm sure a burglar will find their way into my house if they really want to, but that doesn't mean I'm leaving the front door open for them.

HTH.

Letting children into a toilet with their parent is completely different to letting adults in.

This is obvious - and TBH, starting to sound like a threat to mothers - 'let the blokes in or you'll have to send your 3 year old son into the gents alone'

Good grief. "Operation let them speak" is reaching new heights of lunacy.

Tho I'd quite like to see certain transactivists standing outside the women's changing rooms pointing out to parents that as mothers are taking their toddler sons into the swimming pool changing rooms these middle aged men claiming to be women will be following her in and undressing alongside her "cos that's the law innit" 😅

The general public are already pissed off with all this and these ludicrous demands from dodgy men will have people on speed dial to the police.

At least it's honest.

'Excluding trans women from ladies toilets doesn’t stop them from assaulting women, but it does make them more likely to be assaulted themselves.'

Quiet bit out loud?

Excluding trans women from ladies toilets doesn’t stop them from assaulting women

It's excluding men. All men, however they identify. You think letting all men access female only spaces will make them safer for women?

It's men doing the assaulting. It's their problem to sort out. No women's. Women are not shields for men.

Yes, here we go:

Example
13.4.3 A council swimming pool has separate men’s and women’s changing rooms. One of the aims of having separate-sex changing rooms is to safeguard women’s ability to access the facilities and use them safely. A woman is allowed to take her male child under the age of ten into the women’s changing room. This does not undermine the aim, because it is unlikely that young boys pose a threat to women’s safety. It also contributes towards achieving the aim, because fewer women would be able to use the swimming pool if they could not bring their children with them.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/codes-practice/code-practice-consultation-2025-changes-chapter-13

It's almost like some people have forgotten how the world worked 10 years ago....

I’ve read the responses and still don’t understand why this wouldn’t be an issue for you. You all talk about the discomfort a woman who has just had her period would feel if she came out of a stall with her hands covered in blood to see a man. The way her primal instincts would kick in and feel an intense, innate fear of seeing a man in a woman’s space. That’s one of the main talking points on this website.

Using your logic, would she think ‘wait, that’s a cleaner! How silly of me!’ or would she have that instinctive fear?

Just to clarify I reject the premise, but I think you should inspect the clear double standard happening here.

Yeah but the toilet that they choose to use doesn’t influence that. Excluding trans women from ladies toilets doesn’t stop them from assaulting women, but it does make them more likely to be assaulted themselves.

I don’t think the OP is being so outrageously daft as people are suggesting. A lot of the arguments against transwomen using female toilets would also apply - women who have suffered abuse don’t feel safe with males in there, Muslim women should have the space free of males etc.

Muslim women can chose not to use a facility if they know a man is present. They lose that choice if they are not told that a male person might be in the facility. They are unable to consent.

Likewise children. Muslim women can be in the company of little boys because little boys are not men. They can take their own little boys into the female facilities and they can use those facilities if the little boys of other women are also present.

It's not rocket science.