Page 14 | Are toilets still allowed to be cleaned by members of the opposite sex?

ProfesoraLou · 27/05/2025 19:03

WhatNextCatsAsDoctors · 27/05/2025 19:02

Nobody has been able to accurately answer why a woman would be a fearful of a trans woman in a toilet when she’s in a vulnerable state, and not a male cleaner.

yes they have, what's wrong with your eyes?

WhatNextCatsAsDoctors · 27/05/2025 19:02

Nobody has been able to accurately answer why a woman would be a fearful of a trans woman in a toilet when she’s in a vulnerable state, and not a male cleaner.

Annoyedone · 27/05/2025 19:01

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 17:51

Yeah but the toilet that they choose to use doesn’t influence that. Excluding trans women from ladies toilets doesn’t stop them from assaulting women, but it does make them more likely to be assaulted themselves.

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But male on male violence is not women’s problem to solve is it? Are you suggesting that women should be used as human shields to prevent TW from being asssulted by men? You do realise that if you make app spaces mixed sex, I e by allowing TW in, then there is no way to keep any msn it, so the same men TW are afraid of will be in those spaces.

Original poster

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 18:59

Waitwhat23 · 27/05/2025 18:54

I actually dread to ask but what would be entailed in 'proper gate keeping and assessment' for access to transition?

As a first step, stop the ‘informed consent’ private clinics. There should be psychological assessments and other mental health conditions should be well controlled.

OP posts:

Waitwhat23 · 27/05/2025 18:54

I actually dread to ask but what would be entailed in 'proper gate keeping and assessment' for access to transition?

JasmineAllen · 27/05/2025 18:54

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 18:42

How many of them started claiming a trans identify after committing their offence? Or how many of them actually have gender dysphoria?

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That is the 6 million dollar question, as is how do you tell them apart?

The same question is how do you tell the difference between which men will attack women and those who won't?
The answer is: you can't which is why all men are by law excluded from female single sex spaces.

Original poster

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 18:50

TheKeatingFive · 27/05/2025 18:44

Well that's an excellent question. But weren't we told men would never identify as trans for cynical or self interested purposes? 🤔

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I’m certain some people did say that. And I think it’s complete BS. This is why I think proper gate keeping and assessment is needed for access to transition. No self-id rubbish.

I know some people here would say I’m a trans ally or a TRA, but I fit more towards the GC side than TRA side, while still believing there is a way forward that can work for everyone.

OP posts:

Yoonimum · 27/05/2025 18:50

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 16:00

I’m just pointing out that the supreme court ruling was very clear. If a male is in a female space it becomes mixed sex and any person can use it. Those were the supreme courts words.

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I think your question is reasonable. There have been odd occasions where I have needed the extra space outside the cubicles to adjust clothing or spot clean something that has period blood leaked onto it etc. This is when I need a woman only space.
I don't mind so much when the sign is temporary so you are forewarned of a male operative although I'd prefer female only staff. I am definitely uncomfortable if the sign is permanently there and you don't know whether a man will suddenly appear or not. I don't care if anyone thinks I'm unreasonable btw; that's how how I feel and what I need from a women's toilet.

Waitwhat23 · 27/05/2025 18:47

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 18:42

How many of them started claiming a trans identify after committing their offence? Or how many of them actually have gender dysphoria?

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Oh no, no. It wasn't us who chanted 'acceptance without question'. We kept getting told 'they're trans, who are you to question it'.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/05/2025 18:47

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 18:42

How many of them started claiming a trans identify after committing their offence? Or how many of them actually have gender dysphoria?

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Who knows? It’s not my job to police who’s trans. People are what they say they are innit?

DarkForces · 27/05/2025 18:46

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 18:42

How many of them started claiming a trans identify after committing their offence? Or how many of them actually have gender dysphoria?

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It's not like men would ever pretend to be women to assault women 🤔. Trans women are men.

TheKeatingFive · 27/05/2025 18:44

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 18:42

How many of them started claiming a trans identify after committing their offence? Or how many of them actually have gender dysphoria?

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Well that's an excellent question. But weren't we told men would never identify as trans for cynical or self interested purposes? 🤔

Waterbaby41 · 27/05/2025 18:44

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 15:50

I see signs saying toilets may be cleaned by members of the opposite sex in a lot of places. Is this allowed after the supreme court ruling? If a male cleaner was in there it would be a mixed sex space.

You are joking aren't you?

viques · 27/05/2025 18:43

Just popping a random plumber in here before RubyLion gets worried about potentially dangerous leaks that cant be fixed because the only plumber available is the wrong sex. Also the person whose job it is to change over the sanitary bins. 😳

TheKeatingFive · 27/05/2025 18:43

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:38

My point is that it doesn’t make it easier. And if that was actually your argument you would be against male cleaners too!
You’re not against SA you’re against trans people.

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Of course it makes it easier. Women are disempowered to say anything to predatory men in their spaces. If you can't see that, you're anti-women (well that's obvious anyway).

None of that has anything to do with cleaners, whose presence is clearly communicated and women consent to them being there as they enter.

Women do not consent to transwomen in their spaces, if those spaces are signalled as women only. Why do you think women's consent doesn't matter? 😵‍💫

Original poster

PoisedRubyLion · 27/05/2025 18:42

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/05/2025 18:37

Men with a gender identity are not just more likely to be sex offenders than women, they’re more likely to be sex offenders than other men too.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

I’m not sure how else to word this. I expect to be in charge of whether I’m around men when I’m partially dressed. Men who can’t understand that are creepy

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How many of them started claiming a trans identify after committing their offence? Or how many of them actually have gender dysphoria?

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BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/05/2025 18:39

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:35

Why are trans women creepy but not men? If they’re just as likely to commit sex crimes as them?

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Transwomen are men

moreover if they’re in the women’s bogs then they’re men who like to push women’s boundaries

and that is fucking creepy

mugglewump · 27/05/2025 18:38

The High Court ruling was not about cleaners.

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:38

TheKeatingFive · 27/05/2025 18:32

Women get assaulted so let's make it easier for them to get assaulted is a pretty awful take if you don't mind me saying so.

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My point is that it doesn’t make it easier. And if that was actually your argument you would be against male cleaners too!
You’re not against SA you’re against trans people.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/05/2025 18:37

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:37

Trans women are 4x more likely to be SAd than cis women.

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source please. UK numbers

DarkForces · 27/05/2025 18:37

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:35

Why are trans women creepy but not men? If they’re just as likely to commit sex crimes as them?

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I don't want men in the ladies except if it's to provide a service like cleaning or repair. Little boys are not men.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/05/2025 18:37

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:30

But what about the experiences of the women who works as a toilet cleaner and has been flashed several times? A trans woman should have to go through that every single time they need to use a public toilet?
But that’s justified because us cis women couldn’t possibly share a toilet with a trans woman (who despite being more likely than the average woman to be a sex offender, is still very unlikely to be one) once or twice in our lifetime?
I was assaulted by a man on a busy tram. A door with the symbol of a woman on it isn’t going to stop anyone.

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Men with a gender identity are not just more likely to be sex offenders than women, they’re more likely to be sex offenders than other men too.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

I’m not sure how else to word this. I expect to be in charge of whether I’m around men when I’m partially dressed. Men who can’t understand that are creepy

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:37

UpsideDownChairs · 27/05/2025 18:34

And yet it does. Most men do not go in women's toilets, purely because it's not acceptable in society. Social rules are strong.

Your contention is that because some men flash people (largely women and girls though - do you have any reason to think they'll flash men the same amount?), we should let adult men into the women's (where previously there was no flashing at all due to the total lack of adult penis), and send small boys into the mens where they can also be flashed?

You think that grown men dressed somewhat unusually are more in-need of protection from flashing than women and children?

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Trans women are 4x more likely to be SAd than cis women.

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:35

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/05/2025 18:25

Because I want to be in charge of whether I have a man in close proximity to me when I’m partially dressed

I don’t consent to some bloke either deceiving or bullying his way into the ladies. It’s really not hard to understand

cleaner doing his job-probably fine
creepy chap who doesn’t understand consent-no thanks

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Why are trans women creepy but not men? If they’re just as likely to commit sex crimes as them?

DarkForces · 27/05/2025 18:34

Raspberryripple11 · 27/05/2025 18:30

But what about the experiences of the women who works as a toilet cleaner and has been flashed several times? A trans woman should have to go through that every single time they need to use a public toilet?
But that’s justified because us cis women couldn’t possibly share a toilet with a trans woman (who despite being more likely than the average woman to be a sex offender, is still very unlikely to be one) once or twice in our lifetime?
I was assaulted by a man on a busy tram. A door with the symbol of a woman on it isn’t going to stop anyone.

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More likely than your average man too given the number of trans women in jail for sexual assault