The words that have been pulled over your eyes

Oh my goodness I’ve just been in a meeting, and have returned to the ‘echo chamber’ to discover, that according to @Slightyamusedandsilly VAWG has ended!! Is that correct? Because the only way that the ‘biggest social monolith (sex and gender)’ has been overturned is for men to stop attacking, raping and killing women. That surely is what they mean isn’t it?

This movement has unleashed stupidly of a degree I've never seen before in my life

I don't know which parts of "Europe" they are talking about, but I live in France, and yesterday I flew from France to Germany and have spent the last 24 hours mostly on the autobahn, visiting several service stations and various construction sites.

All the toilets I have used have been single sex.

It's a dark day that men can't access women's spaces?

Some people might say so. I suppose.

Of course you can.

Didn't you know every time you say sex is real a fairy dies?

Could you expand on your utopian vision if possible. I'm interested in how a world with no structure in terms of sex and gender works. How does safeguarding of children and vulnerable fit in with your vision?

You can't "overturn" millions of years of mammalian evolution and abolish biological sex, FFS.

Are you saying that sex (male and female) is a social construct?

Agree. But this is an echo chamber. It isn't the real world. And just like Section 28 was a dark day for gay people, so is the current moment.

Stands to reason overturning the biggest social monolith (sex and gender) wouldn't happen without a huge backlash.

Age-wise I'm one of the dinosaurs (hopefully not attitude wise), but I'm sad that I won't be around to see the sun rise over the current storm.

I am not sure why my post has been deleted. Yes, I used terms which are used to describe a transwoman , terms which are in my opinion , offensive ,demeaning and derogatory ( and my opinion was made very clear in the post). I used these terms as a counterpoint to explain why imo using the term cis , as in cis gender or cis woman is also offensive to most women as it is widely seen to be offensive , demeaning and derogatory . I asked whether a poster would be comfortable having offensive, demeaning and derogatory terms used about them. At no time did I use those terms to describe a poster on this board either specifically or generally , nor would I.

I am not asking for my post to be reinstated, but I am explaining why I posted it.

Your post was deleted @viques before I had a chance to agree that being labelled as a cis woman or even cisgender is downright insulting. We are women plain and simple and anyone who says 'what does it matter'or 'how petty' shows such a disregard towards us.

First they shoehorned men into the definition of Women. Next they came for Female and where would it stop. We would be confined to nothing more than cisgender beings if we didn't fight back. So yes correct Language is essential and respect works both ways. Your post was unfairly deleted as you were clearly pointing out how harmful using derogatory labels can be.

Of course, the final nail in the misogyny coffin, was men opining that the toilets are genocidal, or absolutely fine, depending on which man is speaking - when the actual conversation, articles and commentary was about voyeurism and women's safety.

Fuck all to do with them in the first place.

Because transmen are no threat to men as they are usually physically smaller and weaker what with them being biological women so men have nothing to fear from them being in their spaces. Is it so hard to understand?

Schrödinger's bogs, innit.

Butterfly comes on here for a reality check. His friends are constantly lying to him (validating his lie), so this is likely to be his only place for the truth.
It opens a window into why women are so different from him so he can see if the gap can be overcome. What he has done so far isn't working, he didn't get the promised end result.
He hears but doesn't listen to the truth that being a woman isn't about hormones circulating on one day or appearance. It isn't pretending to 'live' as a particular sex. The truth is women, like men, are individuals and it's only our biology that connects us. That biology was set at conception and we are stuck with it.
As a child/teenager, if this cult had existed then, I may well have picked the option to say I was male. Solely because they don't have female biological disadvantages and the wider social disadvantages that come with this. How many young girls want more freedom and choose this thinking they can escape womenhoood?
Butterfly does not realise he is not losing his maleness he is keeping this so loudly - he wants to own womanhood like a possession!

Well that's great then. We can have gender neutral toilets all over the UK alongside the single sex spaces that women and men want and need, and everyone can be happy.

Issue over?

Or is the hope that saying in effect 'if you don't let men harass and use you in your spaces we'll take your spaces away and make you use mixed sex ones and you'll hate that, ha!' is going to somehow help this?

Edited to add: also Datun's point on that other thread: gender neutral is another way of men getting to be with those women and get around things like those women's boundaries, wishes, feelings, needs, diversities, decency, privacy, humanity etc.

I swear for some men unless they can see and know they're using and distressing a woman they can't be happy.

One of butterfly's fellow transwomen has just said, on another thread

"Gender neutral toilets are used all across Europe without complaint"

So that's nice. Butterfly needn't worry.

Although it's a little odd that unisex toilets produce genocide on one hand, and absolutely no complaints on the other. 😁

Isn't it just?

The level of hyperbole is off the scale with the comments about segregation, holocaust, erasure of existence. They are deeply disturbed and deeply offensive comments.

The most we actually say here say is that a male is a man and that any male saying differently is acting in a self centred and unacceptable way.

Rather than it being about 'just wanting to pee' for women it's actually about just wanting some basic respect, privacy, decency and recognition of the boundaries of consent.

Nothing more, nothing less.

We do not wish for trans people to die in a fire. Or be decapitated. Or to kill transpeople. Transpeople coming out with that, have in all in their own heads and frankly that's not out problem to resolve.

Language has meaning. We know this. We can use it directly, but we aren't threatening. We can say thing bluntly, but this isn't denying anyone their rights.

All the nonsense that transwomen have lost rights is propaganda and a lie. The deliberate fundamental misrepresentation of the SC ruling is abhorrent and at times, unlawful.

I think it is beautifully illustrative, on a thread about how words are used and abused for genderism, to see gems like "non-trans woman" "knife to throat" "deranged segregationist" "sneering" etc etc.

👏👏👏

Since the overwhelming majority of people don't identify as trans, talking about non-trans really is another attempt to make the tip of the tail wag the dog. The sheer arrogance of attempting to define the rest of us as not what you are is breath-taking. You are a man who claims your inner womanly feelings outweigh your male body where women's single-sex spaces are concerned. You say you have female friends who confirm that to you.You and they are utterly wrong and the SC judgment has stated that with pellucid clarity. Women's spaces, services and sports are for those born female.

Let's face it.

Any male person who cannot recognise that full consent is needed from a potential sex partner before having sex is not a person who recognises if female people have consented or not to having male people access a female single sex provision.

I was certainly very surprised when there was a poster who demonised Maya Forstater for using accurate language while describing a male barrister while that barrister had just publicly admitted that they had sex with a partner without disclosing that they had told the partner that they were male. It seems that there are many people who don't understand consent and boundaries.

And yet, we then have a poster who declares that some women who are heavily invested in keeping them happy have told that male poster that they should use female single sex spaces and seems to think that those women have 'consented' on behalf of all the women who that male person has or will encounter in those female single sex spaces. Or has decided that the collective female consent is not necessary. It could be both too.

Either way, the topic of consent seems to be not something that some male people understand well, or even at all.

...or maybe he gets off on the humiliation. We know it's a 'thing' with some in the 'community'