The words that have been pulled over your eyes

You know very different trans men to me.

I try to avoid wasting time with people who are complicit in their own eradication from society.

That was especially patronising.

You are still trying to present a 'women vs trans' conflict. Most feminists don't hold virulently anti-trans views and obfuscatory laundering of the labels doesn't change the harm they cause.

You are still trying to present a 'women vs trans' conflict. Most feminists don't hold virulently anti-trans views

This is the Good Women Don't Say No To Men line. Heard it. All my frigging life, got the t shirt.

No one here is anti trans, they are actively anti men literally pissing all over their rights, spaces and needs while those men argue that women don't have those needs, those needs don't matter any way, and no one else agrees with them, and nice women enable men and shut up.

If you jump up and down on people's feet, they will tell you to stop. They will not care if your friends say it's ok, or if most people don't mind. And if you continue to do it saying your existence is threatened if you don't, they are likely to start telling you some home truths that you won't like.

You have the choice at any moment to get the hell off their feet.

That was especially patronising.

You are still trying to present a 'women vs trans' conflict. Most feminists don't hold virulently anti-trans views and obfuscatory laundering of the labels doesn't change the harm they cause.

Pfft. Respecting other people's right to live their own quiet lives is not eradicating oneself from society. That's not even in the same ball park.

You know very different trans men to me.

I try to avoid wasting time with people who are complicit in their own eradication from society.

So you don't believe her, then?

That was especially patronising.

You are still trying to present a 'women vs trans' conflict. Most feminists don't hold virulently anti-trans views and obfuscatory laundering of the labels doesn't change the harm they cause.

This movement has unleashed stupidly of a degree I've never seen before in my life

That was especially patronising.

You are still trying to present a 'women vs trans' conflict. Most feminists don't hold virulently anti-trans views and obfuscatory laundering of the labels doesn't change the harm they cause.

What shines the beacon even brighter on male entitlement where male people will still resort to using female single sex toilets rather than use the one that corresponds with their sex, is that female people with transgender identities who feel their deliberate choices in taking hormones that gave them male body cues that might distress some other women find alternative solutions all the time. They actually make the effort and plan their days.

They tell us this. They don’t complain that society wishes they didn’t exist, they don’t call people deranged for wanting single sex spaces and they don’t lazily use female toilets because they couldn’t find another solution. They actively accept their past choices have meant they have to find equitable solutions and they just do it.

The male entitlement of refusing to do the same and to just continue to use the female single sex toilet when convenient, when it suits them, and to protest being excluded is stark in comparison. But this behaviour is repeated over and over.

And then those very same male people wonder why other people talk about male entitlement and never understanding female behaviour patterns beyond the superficial ones they have adopted.

That was especially patronising.

You are still trying to present a 'women vs trans' conflict. Most feminists don't hold virulently anti-trans views and obfuscatory laundering of the labels doesn't change the harm they cause.

Why would I ?

Her husband isn’t really a very reliable source.

I highly doubt that she has ever been bothered by other women ‘accusing’ her of being a man. Women would be very understanding and sympathetic to a woman that had need to undergo such devastating surgery. Thousands of women have had mastectomies and it’s really unforgivable for JM to use his wife’s surgery in such a risible way.

In fact it only proves it’s men that believe Women are somehow less womanly if they’ve had their breasts removed.

btw… Women are far more accepting of other women that choose to live their lives as men, especially because women have continually and historically been subjected to abuse both physically and mentally by men it’s no surprise they want to escape it by any means possible.

“You seem to be self-identifying as an expert on the behaviour of the vast, vast majority of women who haven't devoted their lives to anti-trans crusading. ”

Fixed that for you Hatched.

You see female people can reasonably make statements about how female people act and why based on their own discussions with women over their lifetime and their own knowledge about how female people act and think, partly due to female socialisation. It is called understanding that socialisation and female behaviour due to having a whole life experience of it from infant hood. I mean, we can be wrong about our statements on common female behaviour , but you won’t know in this particular instance even though you think you do.

But you, personally, have no experience at all in female socialisation and female behaviour . Maybe, it can be said that you have the experience of the simulation of it that you may attempt by using the stereotypes you may choose to emulate. But you will never have the experience of it. Because your every thought has been shaped by your male perspective, perhaps a perspective unique to a group with the philosophical belief they are female, but it is still a male perspective.

It is also always interesting that you continue to call women who campaign for their sex based needs to be prioritised when sex matters as ‘anti-trans’. Even when the logic to your use of the term ‘anti-trans’ has been pointed out many times. The logic still abides despite your lack of belief that it does. That is what material reality does, exist.

So again, if proiritising girls and women = anti-trans, prioritising transgender people can be reliably said to be anti-women and girl. Otherwise known as misogyny.

thanks for the clarification.

I thought it was a kitten.

They do know it means biological woman. Every single person.

That is different to actually respecting that and the implications to women.

Don't confuse the two concepts.

Of course you can.

Didn't you know every time you say sex is real a fairy dies?

I cannot fathom someone putting so much energy into any of this if they are not trans.
It bothers me how bothered some of you are about other people’s genitalia.
I cannot imagine spending so much of my time thinking about this.
Creepy AF.

Agree. But this is an echo chamber. It isn't the real world. And just like Section 28 was a dark day for gay people, so is the current moment.

Stands to reason overturning the biggest social monolith (sex and gender) wouldn't happen without a huge backlash.

Age-wise I'm one of the dinosaurs (hopefully not attitude wise), but I'm sad that I won't be around to see the sun rise over the current storm.

but it's hard to have a discussion on the subject otherwise.
Yes, because a perfectly clear word has been twisted out of shape by men desperate to claim that they are women.

The word should be 'woman', plural 'women'.

I look forward to the day when I can once again say 'woman' and be pretty sure that everyone knows what I mean. Adult natal female. XX.

I used to think that some feminists were a bit bonkers when they claimed that 'men don't let women have anything for ourselves' but I now think they have a point, since we can't even have the word 'woman' any longer.

Cheers.

I've been scolded for using the more technical prefix to signify not-trans, so I just say not-trans in places that aren't trans-friendly. It takes a bit longer to type and feels a bit awkward, but it's hard to have a discussion on the subject otherwise.