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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The words that have been pulled over your eyes

491 replies

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/05/2025 21:00

I initially wrote this as a reply to a thread in relationships, but rather than derail the thread I decided to post it in FWR as a thread in its own right about a common accusation made against gender critical feminists.

It is a response to the claim that the only people who object to the word "cis" are people who deny the existence of trans women, and that such people are transphobes.

"Transphobe", like "trans woman" and indeed "cis woman", are just the words trans activists use to hide what is really going on.

These words exist to hide one simple truth: Trans women are not, in any objective, real way, in any way outside their own heads, in any way that is real to anyone else, any closer to being a woman than any other man is.

"Trans women" in reality are just men who for some reason feel compelled (or sometimes just really want ) to adopt a cross-sex persona playing out whatever their idea of what a woman is.

The words exist to make it sound like a reasonable thing when such men demand that their wives, children, friends and family, colleagues, officials, all of society pretend they are women, let them enter private spaces for women, let them touch or counsel women in roles reserved for women, let them take prizes for women, let them speak for women.

Because we'd never accept that as ok from men. But it's ok for trans women, and if it's not ok that's transphobia.

And we'd never say women in general are more privileged and powerful than men, but call the men trans women and the women cis women and suddenly everyone nods along. And if they don't it's transphobia.

But I don't believe the thing that makes men and women different is our minds. And without that belief, the whole thing falls apart.

OP posts:
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NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:52

Helleofabore · 25/05/2025 21:46

This is very easy to answer.

Because not only is this group of male people demanding that people describe them as being something they are materially not, they are not female people or women or girls, but they are demanding access to female single sex provisions.

Oh. And there is no difference between this group of male people and the ‘average man’. No difference at all apart from a philosophical belief that is not based on material reality at all.

HTH.

But they're not getting access to our spaces so that's sorted. I don't know about you but I've had far more bother, aggression, unwanted sexual attention and forced attention etc etc from the average man many times in my life yet none of that from a trans woman. So it seems very unbalanced to continually go on and on about trans women and trans people in general.

Helleofabore · 25/05/2025 21:51

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:45

There does seem to be a lot of threads devoted to the subject.

Yes. You are on the board that was set up specifically for this topic. Of course there are slot of threads about it. The impacts on female people and children is very wide ranging.

You don’t sound very well informed if you don’t understand the ramifications. From safeguarding to the need for single sex spaces in prison, refuges, changing rooms and so on. To sport. To schools. To children’s needs. From language demands to court cases.

All because some people have a philosophical belief that they have convinced decision makers should be given additional privileges that no other group has been given.

Seethlaw · 25/05/2025 21:51

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:41

Yes but surely some of them have done bad things too. That would be interesting for a change

Interesting how? Why would anyone care about trans men lying, stealing, cheating or even killing someone? That doesn't make us any different from the rest of the population. In particular, we don't do anything that threatens women or women's rights, which would be the focus of a feminist board.

JellySaurus · 25/05/2025 21:51

But why the obsession with trans women? It's not as if they are the only ones who might commit violence but they're made out to be the big bad bogeys. Yes there are some trans women ( who possibly only decided they were trans when faced with prison) who have done awful things but the vast majority are done by the average man.

Trans-identifying men are the average man, just they express a personal belief, or a fixation, or a fetish, and demand that the rest of the world enable it.

They're not the only ones who commit violence, but they are the only men we are expected to welcome into our single-sex spaces. Spaces which are generally safer for women purely because men are excluded from them.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/05/2025 21:50

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:39

Why not actually talk about the average man then (i.e not trans) instead of trans women all the time. There's a lot more needs doing in regard to mens behaviour in general without just zeroing in on trans women

Because sociey is already talking about, acknowlledging and (to some degree, in some places, albeit not enough) fighting the bad behaviour of not-trans-identifying males.

Because the risk that the not-trans-identifying male poses is not subject to institutional level gaslighting.

Because the data about not-trans-identifying male crimes and risks are not being misreported and misrecorded as data about female people.

Because no one is being fired for acknowledging that not-trans-identifying males pose a risk.

Because the mitigations - the spaces and the language and the rights and the priorities - that have been put in place to deal with the threat not-trans-identifying males pose to women are being subverted and destroyed by the territorial demands of (TRAs on behalf of) trans women.

Because TRA's war on women is being executed through words and therefore talking about it is the place we fight back.

OP posts:
Theeyeballsinthesky · 25/05/2025 21:50

just a reminder that changing the definition of women so it no longer means ‘adult human female’ but means ‘adult human female + plus men who say they feel like women/perform female stereotypes’ affects over 50% of the population

but thank you for those who’ve rushed her to trot out the usual fatuous ‘arguments’ about genitalia or ‘why do you even caaareee?’ I sense this thread is going to be yet another opportunity to lay out all the GC points

TheAntiGardener · 25/05/2025 21:48

CuppaJoe · 25/05/2025 21:25

And yet people like you are always the ones to bring up genitalia in the first place.

Yes, the other favourite being ‘you’re LITERALLY reducing women to walking vaginas!!’ Saw that a few times after the recent SC judgment.

Where do you start with these arguments?

NebulousDogWhistleIsReality · 25/05/2025 21:46

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:39

Why not actually talk about the average man then (i.e not trans) instead of trans women all the time. There's a lot more needs doing in regard to mens behaviour in general without just zeroing in on trans women

Because trans identifying men are still men.

Helleofabore · 25/05/2025 21:46

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:32

But why the obsession with trans women? It's not as if they are the only ones who might commit violence but they're made out to be the big bad bogeys. Yes there are some trans women ( who possibly only decided they were trans when faced with prison) who have done awful things but the vast majority are done by the average man.

This is very easy to answer.

Because not only is this group of male people demanding that people describe them as being something they are materially not, they are not female people or women or girls, but they are demanding access to female single sex provisions.

Oh. And there is no difference between this group of male people and the ‘average man’. No difference at all apart from a philosophical belief that is not based on material reality at all.

HTH.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 25/05/2025 21:45

StMarie4me · 25/05/2025 21:14

I cannot fathom someone putting so much energy into any of this if they are not trans.
It bothers me how bothered some of you are about other people’s genitalia.
I cannot imagine spending so much of my time thinking about this.
Creepy AF.

And yet here you are, the first reply

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 25/05/2025 21:45

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:39

Why not actually talk about the average man then (i.e not trans) instead of trans women all the time. There's a lot more needs doing in regard to mens behaviour in general without just zeroing in on trans women

How does one tell the difference between a harmless trans woman and a man with nefarious intent? They are both male.

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:45

Linked · 25/05/2025 21:41

The average man isn’t trying to force their way into women’s space.

If you think feminists don’t talk about anything else you are mistaken

There does seem to be a lot of threads devoted to the subject.

Fargo79 · 25/05/2025 21:44

StMarie4me · 25/05/2025 21:14

I cannot fathom someone putting so much energy into any of this if they are not trans.
It bothers me how bothered some of you are about other people’s genitalia.
I cannot imagine spending so much of my time thinking about this.
Creepy AF.

Either you do not understand the issue being discussed (because you lack the intelligence or have not bothered reading about it before forming an opinion), or you do understand and you are deliberately misrepresenting the GC position in order to deflect.

JustFeedMeCake · 25/05/2025 21:43

Literally the ONLY thing you need to be a trans woman, is a man.

Slightyamusedandsilly · 25/05/2025 21:43

StMarie4me · 25/05/2025 21:14

I cannot fathom someone putting so much energy into any of this if they are not trans.
It bothers me how bothered some of you are about other people’s genitalia.
I cannot imagine spending so much of my time thinking about this.
Creepy AF.

👏👏👏👏👏

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:41

TheOtherRaven · 25/05/2025 21:40

That would be because those men are not in daily effort to destroy women's rights and equalities in law and in practice.

Really?

whatflite · 25/05/2025 21:41

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:39

Why not actually talk about the average man then (i.e not trans) instead of trans women all the time. There's a lot more needs doing in regard to mens behaviour in general without just zeroing in on trans women

Because the average man is not making a fuss about not being allowed into women’s bathrooms or women’s football teams

Linked · 25/05/2025 21:41

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:39

Why not actually talk about the average man then (i.e not trans) instead of trans women all the time. There's a lot more needs doing in regard to mens behaviour in general without just zeroing in on trans women

The average man isn’t trying to force their way into women’s space.

If you think feminists don’t talk about anything else you are mistaken

TheKeatingFive · 25/05/2025 21:41

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:39

Why not actually talk about the average man then (i.e not trans) instead of trans women all the time. There's a lot more needs doing in regard to mens behaviour in general without just zeroing in on trans women

Because the average man doesn't think he has a right to women's spaces.

Again, not hard to figure that distinction out, so why is this such a struggle for you I wonder?

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:41

ArabellaScott · 25/05/2025 21:38

Transmen are female.

Yes but surely some of them have done bad things too. That would be interesting for a change

TheOtherRaven · 25/05/2025 21:40

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:39

Why not actually talk about the average man then (i.e not trans) instead of trans women all the time. There's a lot more needs doing in regard to mens behaviour in general without just zeroing in on trans women

That would be because those men are not in daily effort to destroy women's rights and equalities in law and in practice.

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:39

Linked · 25/05/2025 21:35

Because they are men

Why not actually talk about the average man then (i.e not trans) instead of trans women all the time. There's a lot more needs doing in regard to mens behaviour in general without just zeroing in on trans women

TheOtherRaven · 25/05/2025 21:39

StMarie4me · 25/05/2025 21:14

I cannot fathom someone putting so much energy into any of this if they are not trans.
It bothers me how bothered some of you are about other people’s genitalia.
I cannot imagine spending so much of my time thinking about this.
Creepy AF.

Fundamental misunderstanding here: no one is interested in the men, or any part of them. They are interested in the women that those men impact upon, and upon the equalities and legal rights of those women to live lives unimpeded by those men.

Not everything, all the time is about men. Not everything women think and do revolves around men.

ArabellaScott · 25/05/2025 21:38

NoKnittingAllowed · 25/05/2025 21:35

We've got safe spaces now after the SC ruling but still the trans women fixation continues. Why not talk about trans men for a change, I'm sure some of them are wrong uns.

Transmen are female.

Britinme · 25/05/2025 21:38

Leafstamp · 25/05/2025 21:23

What makes someone trans or not trans @Britinme?

Imagination.

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