The words that have been pulled over your eyes

I seem to remember about 25 years ago a Trans man doing well in a caber toss competition in Scotland, and some big hairy men getting a bit upset about it...

However, I suspect Trans men, having been raised female have internalised not taking up space and keeping their mouths shut. Perhaps other players don't kick up about it because TM don't generally have a physical advantage or an intimidation factor, so it's not a concern?

Lots of articles and debates about trans women in women’s sports. But what about trans men in men’s sport. You don’t hear about that. I haven’t read a single article about a trans man getting kicked out a men’s football club or rugby club. All this talk about what is woman. Why is no one asking the saying thing about what is a man.

These words exist to hide one simple truth: Trans women are not, in any objective, real way, in any way outside their own heads, in any way that is real to anyone else, any closer to being a woman than any other man is.

Once understood, everything that been done to accommodate and promote trans identities seems strange.

Even the most committed TRA acknowledge that men are responsible for the majority of violence and sexual assault. But once a man declares that he is trans, safeguarding and caution is disregarded. And this is for any man at any time.

Politicians have been caught out imposing this ideology on society. They are the ones who wrote laws regarding safeguarding and equality, then allowed men to ignore it. Now the SC has exposed this, politicans are yet to acknowledge their mistakes.

So yes, I'll admit I'm going to remain obsessed with men with gender identities until the government stop giving men this protected class status.

Oh yes, who can forget birthing bodies and menstruators.

I've yet to see any transwoman referred to as an ejaculator, or an inseminator, funnily enough.

Bodies with holes.

In response to the OP's 'words' query. Seeing women referred to by such a reductive term as 'Bodies with Holes' on cover of the world's leading medical journal - the fucking Lancet - enraged me.

Now that phrase indicated an obsession with genitals.

@NoKnittingAllowed

Much like yourself presenting as a trans male the majority of trans women will present as trans women therefore I can see the difference between a trans woman and an average man

One of these is a man who claims to be a woman and inserts himself into places such as women's refuges. Another is a part-timer who claims to be a woman on some days and a man on other days. He has been given an award for women in business. The third is somewhat more in touch with reality. What difference can you see between them? Can you even tell which is which without googling?

Brace yourself.

You can't possibly think that transwomen are different to any other men. In fact...

Firstly, statistically, they are over representated in prison for sex offences.

Secondly, they have started their own porn genre, on porn hub, in women's toilets, wanking all over them.

Thirdly, they love nothing more than to pose in women's toilets with knives, with their penises out, with their legs up on the sinks (don't really get that one, but whatever).

Fourthly, they are already in there without women's consent.

Fifthly, they are currently all over London, with their moobs exposed, threatening women and last week were pissing up statues.

I mean, I could go on. But when you get an entire cohort of men threatening to kill women, threatening to rape them, battering them at rallies, blacking their eyes, getting them fired, doxed and arrested, i'm going to hazard a guess, and say you're probably on a teensy weensy bit of a hiding to nothing asking why we don't want them in our private spaces.

It’s just deflect, deflect, deflect. I think it’s clear what the motivation is here.

We’re not here to discuss our trauma in detail with you, that’s really inappropriate.

It’s not just about which spaces they use and they are not taking the SC well either.

You don’t think they are just going to accept the SC ruling and go away do you? Their propaganda wagon has leapt into overdrive, the BBC have featured countless ‘poor, sad ‘transwomen’ and they are organising protests and soliciting ‘allyship’ commitments from organisations up and down the country.

Tell you what, you shout about the issues you’re concerned with and we will continue to deal with the issues we know about and combat the heinous and insidious effects of #nodebate that linger. Deal?

Things like stopping the NHS from carrying out hundreds of extremely expensive penis removals of inadequately assessed, vulnerable men per year. And protecting the thousands of kids who are getting sucked into ruining their health and fertility by doctors and activists.

It would only be interesting if it was true, or don’t facts matter?

We aren't obsessed with transwomen. We are rational people who realised years ago what the Supreme Court confirmed recently - it is rationally impossible to have any kind of objective definition for which male people are allowed in female spaces that doesn't boil down to "this space is for female people plus any male person who wishes to enter" and that effectively means the same thing as a mixed-sex space, and the abolition of all female spaces. There is no set of definitions that allow lovely kind and nice transwomen in that won’t also allow in every male sex offender, no matter what gender they are.

The only way of making a space that has any benefit for women is to say that all honorable, decent and trustworthy male people stay out, regardless of gender, so that we know that any male person in there is not honorable, decent or trustworthy and we can act accordingly.

We are capable of doing more than one thing at once you know.

TM are women, 98% of sexual crimes are carried out by men, with the overwhelming majority of victims being women. We’re at risk from men, not women.

TW are men, just the same as any other man, and it is specifically them who are demanding access to women’s singles sex spaces. They also commit sexual offences at a much higher rate than men in general.

I don’t know, we object to convicted rapists larping as women being put in women’s prisons, we object to watching girls and women being elbowed out of their sports by mediocre men, also larping as women. We object to women who have been raped being told to ‘reframe their trauma and stop being a bigot’ because they’d rather not have a bloke larping as a woman as their rape counsellor.

It’s great that you can’t see why we would put so much effort into fighting this regressive, misogynistic, homophobic ideology, but we don’t need you to see it, we just need you to leave us alone to get on with it, and if you’re a woman, benefit from all our hard work in standing up for women and girls, just like you’ve benefited from all the hard work of the millions of women who fought before us.

HTH.

I used to be fine with cis as a categorisation tool. A cis person does not claim a cross-sex gender identity, but a trans person does (let's not get into the enbies).

Then someone pointed out that this could be read as the 'cis' person claiming a birth sex-aligned gender identity, as opposed to having no beliefs about gender identity (for me, the proposition that everyone has a gender identity, which can be sex-incongruent, is unfalsifiable and therefore not worth debating).

So cis is part of the paraphernalia of a metaphysical belief system to which I do not subscribe. I therefore avoid it, which is sometimes awkward.

I believe in trans people just as I believe in Christians. So if my disbelief in God makes me an anti-Christian bigot (it doesn't), my disbelief in gender identity makes me a transphobe (it doesn't).

'interesting'?

Abuse is not a fucking parlour game we're discussing for shits and giggles.

Your posts are unbelievably offensive, frankly.

Of course, there are two problems with that.

The first problem is that it appears to adopt an "innocent until proven guilty" (or "woman until proven rapist") approach.

That means we have to accept that they are women until they actually harm us. And only after that, when the damage has already been done, are we allowed to say that they are not women and insist on a little safeguarding. Of course, we are only allowed to have this boundary in respect of the man who has already harmed us. We must treat all other men who say they are women as though they are women until they prove otherwise by raping someone.

The second problem, of course, is that the trans rights lobby, backed by many mainstream politicians, has actively fought for trans identifying male rapists and murderers to be held in women's prisons. So clearly, "has not committed any abusive act towards women" is not in fact a requirement. You can still be a woman whilst raping women with your womanly penis, apparently.

I suspect it will just be a constant shifting of goal posts at this point. There is no intention for any positive contribution, just like there seems to be little attempt to understand the current situation.

If you can’t read a post about women’s rights and the unacceptable liberties taken by men who identify as women without thinking of men’s genitalia, that’s a you problem.

Have you not looked at the relationship threads on here? The ones from women whose men are liars, cheats, abusers, rapists...
Then there's the threads on misogyny, Andrew Tate, and the effect on young men.

I don’t think you need to have personally experienced something to know that it’s a possibility. The way safeguarding works is not to wait for incidents to occur but to try to prevent them from occurring. We know that trans women offend at the same rate as other men and are statistically more likely to be convicted of a sexual offence than your average bloke.

I’ve never been raped but I know it’s men who rape whatever they identify as.