The words that have been pulled over your eyes

If you'd told any normal person a decade ago that the UK would indulge a patently unenforceable, deeply harmful and completely deranged trans segregationist initiative over toilets, of all fucking things...

Men have never been allowed in the women's toilets. Good Lord.

And of course TRAs want it segregated. That's the whole bloody point. They don't want the entire country to be unisex. They want segregation for everyone else, just not them.

I’d prefer you said absolutely nothing at all if I’m honest.

'Deranged'.

Women who don't agree to any man who wants to use the women's loos doing so are deranged?

You were asked for a proven example. She hasn’t even confirmed it herself and immediately after her swivel eyed loon of a husband posted it, she deactivated her SM account. Surely she would have been falling over herself to confirm his every word.

We just want womens spaces to be free of males.

That's all.

Nice try. We’re women, but you already know that.

Get a grip. It's not you who are being harassed and marginalised because you have to stay out of the ladies.

It's your compatriots, not ours, who are threatening to rape and kill women, standing in front of the houses of Parliament and telling us to be very afraid.

It's the law. It's always been the law. Just use the gents. Like every man has always done.

Good Lord. It's a bloody toilet. You already claimed that you avoid women's toilets when you can, just keep doing that.

The world does not revolve around you, butterfly.

What do you think women did prior to baby changing units and breastfeeding protocols?

We had to design our entire day around changing and feeding our babies.

And guess what, there wasn't a whole shaft of apps to tell us where we could do it either.

Do you think, in your wildest dreams, that you would ever have heard a woman saying oh my God you're holding a knife to my throat because I can't just feed and change my baby wherever I want??

I can tell you one thing, if womanhood was the award that you all wish it was, none of you would ever win it.

It’s not really just over toilets it’s over changing rooms, sports , hospital wards, the right to single sex care, refuges and prisons.

You aren’t tinker belle, you won’t puff out of existence just because I don’t believe you are a woman and shouldn’t be in female single sex spaces.

Use the gents or choose places to go with unisex loos. For many people (me included) planning your life around availability of suitable toilets is a really normal thing to do. Campaign for more unisex spaces if it’ll help.

Ps @ButterflyHatched ir was never just about toilets….

I'm baffled, to be honest. What do you think is going to happen if you use the gents'?

You can use the mens. You’ll be fine and you’ll have the added bonus of knowing you’re not one of those boundary transgressing creepy men. That’ll be a right boost for your self esteem and mental health so win win.

I fully agree Red.

I used to classify it as a lack of self-awareness. Now I realise that I was wrong and that it was as you say.

Once you see a lot of things you can't unsee them.

And narcissistic behaviour is unmistakable and unmissable.

We shouldn't be having conversations about the pronouns she/her or he/him. We should be having conversations and me/I and how much they are used.

It is stark isn’t it?

But you see it, you can not unsee it again.

The hyperbole that we see written by male posters who have transgender identities never seems to diminish, does it flirtswithrhinos?

Apparently, expecting someone to make appropriate choices based on their sex and not on their philosophical belief is impossible to contemplate.

As someone who has worked in the Criminal Justice system for over 20 years ; offenders, ex offenders and victims.
I have worked with only 2 trans men - both victims of violence. I one of these cases I think the psychiatrist that signed off on the person’s application for surgery to be utterly contemptible. The woman concerned was clearly the victim of long term systemic abuse. She was trying to escape and somehow believed that by changing “sex” this would stop😡
and
numerous trans women - some were the victims of violence but unfortunately most were perpetrators of some of the most heinous crimes.

And to be clear about my personal opinion/ observations “trans”is a completely meaningless phrase to describe ( or in some cases disguise) a range of other underlying issues. It suits certain groups to push this narrative.

The answer is still no.

And no matter how many times anyone professes to the contrary, men can never become women.

Anyone who says differently is a liar.

It may not be what people want to hear but it will always be reality and that will always be the lived experience of every single human on the planet.

The people most aware of this, are the very ones who protest too much. It is their inescapable curse. Deep down they will always know.

Denial isn't a place in Egypt.

The snake oil is real.

“You seem to be self-identifying as an expert on the behaviour of the vast, vast majority of women who haven't devoted their lives to anti-trans crusading. ”

Fixed that for you Hatched.

You see female people can reasonably make statements about how female people act and why based on their own discussions with women over their lifetime and their own knowledge about how female people act and think, partly due to female socialisation. It is called understanding that socialisation and female behaviour due to having a whole life experience of it from infant hood. I mean, we can be wrong about our statements on common female behaviour , but you won’t know in this particular instance even though you think you do.

But you, personally, have no experience at all in female socialisation and female behaviour . Maybe, it can be said that you have the experience of the simulation of it that you may attempt by using the stereotypes you may choose to emulate. But you will never have the experience of it. Because your every thought has been shaped by your male perspective, perhaps a perspective unique to a group with the philosophical belief they are female, but it is still a male perspective.

It is also always interesting that you continue to call women who campaign for their sex based needs to be prioritised when sex matters as ‘anti-trans’. Even when the logic to your use of the term ‘anti-trans’ has been pointed out many times. The logic still abides despite your lack of belief that it does. That is what material reality does, exist.

So again, if proiritising girls and women = anti-trans, prioritising transgender people can be reliably said to be anti-women and girl. Otherwise known as misogyny.

thanks for the clarification.

Ooh, how wonderful, decades of hormonal experimentation on your body and you’ve come up with a way you claim is reducing the risks of stroke, heart attack, pulmonary embolism, cancer. Where’s the data on this, that switching to patches reduces the risk of complications? Where does this fit in with children puberty blocked at Tanner stage 2, something you support?

But it’s still there though, isn’t it, the risk? It’s still a risk that wouldn’t exist if you were a man in your 40s who had never undertaken hormone treatment. It’s still a risk that you want children to have but we don’t.

It’s still a risk that you think is acceptable to subject children to for the undefined concept of gender identity and it’s still a risk that you think anyone trying to prevent children experiencing is guilty of metaphorical knife violence.

Why do you think this? Why do you think that people who read experiences like yours, someone who has irrevocably damaged your body and is at serious risk of serious disease and early death, someone who still hasn’t come to terms with one’s self and still exhibits anger at those in the world who do not accept the falsehood of your claimed identity, are somehow violent metaphorical monsters for wanting children to find a different way in life?

You can significantly reduce the risks by switching to transdermal HRT patches, by the way. Which I did after recommendation by my doctor.

Er no. Most humans, male or female, in their 40s like you, don’t have a precarious health situation going on that is entirely iatrogenic. If people do have health concerns, it’s from a natural process of disease. Yours has been entirely caused by doctors. You see the danger inherent in this because of how you described it when you first started posted here.

Yet you have the audacity and vileness to claim that people trying to prevent children ending up in the same precarious health situation you are in now, are somehow doing so with a metaphorical knife to the throat of those children.

You’re essentially saying “let the kids end up as unhealthy and in as much danger to their health as I am!”

And somehow, we’re the bad guys.

The very same sword that dangles precariously above the heads of non-trans women who take oral HRT for extended periods of time.

Also I'm very sorry that the English language is overburdened with sharp metaphors. Perhaps we shall one day overcome our cultural obsession with historical implements of warfare (or...current medicine?) and liberate ourselves from its linguistic shackles.

to start begging them to ease off the pressure on the knife they were holding to the throat of trans kids

Interesting choice of vile metaphor, given you yourself have used the metaphor of the Sword of Damocles dangling over your head because of the health issues you’ve been left with as a result of decades of hormonal mistreatment of your body, something people are trying to prevent being inflicted on children. Something you call “a knife to the throat of trans kids”. So they either have a knife to their throat or a sword dangling over their head decades later, according to you.

Why do you always resort to pointy weapon metaphors?