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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Teacher sacked for copying trans child's safeguarding info

41 replies

Nameychangington · 25/05/2025 19:57

Now clearly this teacher was wrong to copy a child's safeguarding info.

But this from the judge is pretty concerning:

Judge McTigue also ruled that transitioning children should have anonymity over their true biological sex "for life" to respect their privacy and ensure their future safety.

Are we ever going to get past the idea that hiding transpeople's sex a) is possible or b) has no impact on others? How is this school going to meet the needs of other children if they do that? And again with the 'transpeople are unsafe' rhetoric. It's like 2021 all over again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gre53drqvo

An image of Nottingham Employment Tribunal Centre

Christian teacher loses dismissal case over trans pupil row

The teacher took Nottinghamshire County Council to a tribunal claiming unfair dismissal.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gre53drqvo

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/06/2025 21:37

minnienono · 09/06/2025 20:48

Of course partners need to know, that’s a given but there is no need for other to know except where the person is taking part in an activity or situation that is segregated by biological sex.

i don’t think I need to know if my cleaner at work is trans for instance. You would never guess my dh’s nephew is trans

As this is about children and schools, then anonymity doesn't apply. Schools need to know the sex of adults and children so that teachers and pupils are not put in compromising positions - eg supervising changing rooms and toilets, ensuring only single sex changing, toilets and sleeping on school trips etc. The needs of children and safeguarding should always come first rather than the demands from activists.

minnienono · 09/06/2025 20:48

Of course partners need to know, that’s a given but there is no need for other to know except where the person is taking part in an activity or situation that is segregated by biological sex.

i don’t think I need to know if my cleaner at work is trans for instance. You would never guess my dh’s nephew is trans

Mmmnotsure · 09/06/2025 20:43

IwantToRetire · 09/06/2025 20:31

This is a different case.

Thanks. In fact I had so many threads open trying to find the right one, I thought based on the name I posted on the right one.

There are so many parents and teachers caught up in all this, trying to walk tightropes to protect children in the face of captured institutions. Some get it wrong in the process, unfortunately.

IwantToRetire · 09/06/2025 20:31

This is a different case.

Thanks. In fact I had so many threads open trying to find the right one, I thought based on the name I posted on the right one.

Mmmnotsure · 09/06/2025 20:29

IwantToRetire · 09/06/2025 20:22

Bit confused as there are so many threads about this case (dating back some years) or maybe there is more than one? Hmm

So think is a further update.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7zn077nd4o

This is a different case. This is Kristie Higgs v Farmor's School in Glos, which has been going on for something like seven years. Higgs raised concerns on her Facebook page about what she saw as extreme trans ideology being taught in her son's C of E junior school. She won her case at the Court of Appeal. The school is not allowed to appeal to the SC.

There are so many cases...

IwantToRetire · 09/06/2025 20:22

Bit confused as there are so many threads about this case (dating back some years) or maybe there is more than one? Hmm

So think is a further update.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7zn077nd4o

Kristie Higgs smiles at the camera. She has long brown hair down to her shoulders and is wearing a white top

Gloucestershire school cannot take sacked woman to Supreme Court

The Christian school worker says she is "relieved and grateful" for the Supreme Court decision.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7zn077nd4o

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 26/05/2025 17:39

... by which I mean that horrifying, atrocious and catastrophic are hyperbole. It does appear that this teacher has made a mistake and is suffering the consequences.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 26/05/2025 17:35

Hyperbole from the usual quarter.

ButterflyHatched · 26/05/2025 16:45

Horrifying, atrocious behaviour on the part of this teacher. Catastrophic safeguarding failure!

Good call from the judge, protecting this child's future chances of escaping a lifetime of transphobia.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/05/2025 15:36

Thanks for this Arabella. Good to get a legal view.
Having taught for decades it's disappointing to see a number of these cases where individual teachers centre their objections to social transitioning around an individual child. I understand the difficulties and challenges and how this can impact on the classroom, a peer group and the school, as well as challenging our personal beliefs.
But making it personal about an individual child is plain wrong. Apart from anything else, most of these children are exceptionally vulnerable and don't need public disapproval from their teachers.

Maddy70 · 26/05/2025 15:27

She broke the terms of her contract she should have been sacked

ArabellaScott · 26/05/2025 14:56

'...in my view the teacher was rightfully sacked. She had made the mistake of allowing a general challenge to a dangerous ideology to lead her into harmful conduct where the welfare of the actual child was subsumed into evidence gathering for a legal action. '
...
'But there is part of the judgment which is very concerning, where the Tribunal dealt with the anonymity issue (para 235 onward). To protect the identity of Child X being discovered the Tribunal made an anonymity order that covered the teacher and the school, to prevent jigsaw identification of the child. The teacher wished to vary the anonymity order to reveal her name but the Tribunal held that her rights under article 10 to speak publicly about the case did not outweigh the child’s right to privacy under article 8.
...
With not much respect to the Tribunal, this is insane. Child X had already disclosed her sex to some of her class mates. The assumption that it would be possible for Child X to keep her sex a secret from even her ‘partners’ in the future is surely magical thinking at its most dangerous. Not only would it be impossible to achieve this, with regard to a sexual partner it is a potential criminal offence.'

... to claim that a trans person has a right to lie to their partner about what sex they are or to their own child about whether or not they are a mother or a father, should not need a court decision to be revealed as yet more ideologically programmed and unjustifiable primacy being given to one minority group against all others. '

Prosecutors publish updated ‘deception as to sex’ guidance | The Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/prosecutors-publish-updated-deception-sex-guidance

Thatcannotberight · 26/05/2025 10:07

No idea how stealth works for trans identifying children, but my son had a friend at the school nursery who was a year older than him.
When he caught up with him again( they move to a different building from Reception upwards) his friend now in yr 1 was a girl with a feminine version of his old name.
As far as I can see, everyone knew he was a boy, but nobody was allowed to mention it.
He did go all through Primary education identifying as the opposite sex, then fell off the radar. He didn't attend the local Senior School.

CarefulN0w · 25/05/2025 22:38

Although safeguarding can be a reason to disclose confidential information in the right circumstances, it sounds like this individual accessed the information repeatedly and transcribed some of it to her own device. Although I may share gender critical views with this person, it sounds to me as if it is right that she has lost her employment.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/05/2025 21:55

It's well worth reading the lengthy judgement to see why the teacher was dismissed. She had considerable concerns about having an 8 year old boy thinking he was a girl in her class and the implications of this for the child and his peers. This went on for a long time with her absences, suspensions and numerous meetings. Most of us would share concerns about primary children caught up in socially transitioning.

But what she was dismissed for were serious GDPR breaches - she breached clear school policies and repeatedly accessed the child's online safeguarding records (and another child's records). She had no safeguarding reason to access them and she copied some of the contents - she wanted (and actually used) confidential information about the child and family as part of her case against the school.

You can't breach confidentiality as a teacher as she did and expect to keep your job. It's a very lengthy judgment and I've not read all of it. But it's clear that she was dismissed for gross misconduct.

I completely agree that the issue of Year 4 kids thinking they're the opposite sex is a major safeguarding issue and the lack of guidelines for schools about this (after the draft guidelines issued by the last government) is shameful. But I suspect the judge's comments are taken out of context.

Nameychangington · 25/05/2025 21:49

rebmacesrevda · 25/05/2025 21:46

Yes.
The reporting restriction is on the claimant's name. If the claimant's name was published, the school could be identified, and the child could be identified in that way (jigsaw identification).

Oh I see, as in child from Ms X's class who got moved to the other class and is oddly short for a boy would be identifiable. Thanks that makes sense. The whole 'lifelong anonymity to everyone in their life' thing confused me.

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rebmacesrevda · 25/05/2025 21:49

"We conclude that if the claimant’s name were to be allowed to be publicised, there is a real and significant risk that the identity of Child X could be revealed through jigsaw identification. That is particularly so given the media attention this case has already attracted notwithstanding that the claimant’s identity cannot be revealed. In summary we conclude that child X’s rights under Article 8 prevails over the Claimant’s rights under Article 10."

rebmacesrevda · 25/05/2025 21:46

Nameychangington · 25/05/2025 21:35

But a child in a court case wouldn't be named in reporting anyway, would they? Or would they? I thought under 18s automatically had anonymity?

Yes.
The reporting restriction is on the claimant's name. If the claimant's name was published, the school could be identified, and the child could be identified in that way (jigsaw identification).

ArabellaScott · 25/05/2025 21:37

Nameychangington · 25/05/2025 21:35

But a child in a court case wouldn't be named in reporting anyway, would they? Or would they? I thought under 18s automatically had anonymity?

I don't know. Sometimes judges do seem to whang on endlessly and unnecessarily just to indulge their own pointless navel gazing in excrucuatingly tedious detail.

Nameychangington · 25/05/2025 21:35

ArabellaScott · 25/05/2025 21:28

As far as i can tell, this is only in the context of this specific tribunal. The judge will not allow the child to be named in case this means that later in life this reveals the child's biological sex.

It only means the judgement and media reporting this case cannot name the child.

Personally I'd have said the child shouldn't be named at all, for privacy and safeguarding. I don't see what 'outing' them has to do with anything.

But a child in a court case wouldn't be named in reporting anyway, would they? Or would they? I thought under 18s automatically had anonymity?

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Seethlaw · 25/05/2025 21:33

ArabellaScott · 25/05/2025 21:28

As far as i can tell, this is only in the context of this specific tribunal. The judge will not allow the child to be named in case this means that later in life this reveals the child's biological sex.

It only means the judgement and media reporting this case cannot name the child.

Personally I'd have said the child shouldn't be named at all, for privacy and safeguarding. I don't see what 'outing' them has to do with anything.

Ah, okay, thank you. Not being able to name the child for classic privacy and safeguarding reasons makes sense.

Nameychangington · 25/05/2025 21:31

This could result in Child X’s biological sex becoming aware to groups of people including for example their future classmates, employers, partners, friends and indeed, in time, their own children.

According to the judgement, the child had already told classmates their actual sex. So that ship had sailed.

How is a transperson's sex going to be kept secret from their own children? And surely keeping it a secret from their partner would be sex by deception (and also result in not having any children?)

And can we just stop and recognise that the child under discussion was a year 4 - that's 8-9 years old. Transing a year 4 child should be a safeguarding red flag. Let alone the fact that the child has disclosed physical abuse by a parent and emotional turmoil. The teacher was 100% wrong to copy confidential safeguarding information but what the hell was going on in this family and this school because it sounds like a young child being completely failed by the adults around it.

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ArabellaScott · 25/05/2025 21:29

JaniceBattersby · 25/05/2025 21:27

This is just reporting restriction to stop the child’s identity being revealed in the press and that inadvertently leading to other people in their life finding out about their trans status.

Whatever your views on whether trans people are morally compelled to tell romantic partners about their trans status (and I think they are), it’s only fair that they should be able to impart that information themselves and not through the medium of a newspaper report.

Thank you, yes, thats what I thought. I expect the BBC reporter would also understand that. Which means they've misrepresented the judgement.

ArabellaScott · 25/05/2025 21:28

Seethlaw · 25/05/2025 20:45

"This could result in Child X’s biological sex becoming aware to groups of people including for example their future classmates, employers, partners, friends and indeed, in time, their own children."

I'm very uneasy with the idea that a trans person has a "right" to not talk about their trans status to their partners and children. At this point, it's not a right anymore, it's a closet.

As far as i can tell, this is only in the context of this specific tribunal. The judge will not allow the child to be named in case this means that later in life this reveals the child's biological sex.

It only means the judgement and media reporting this case cannot name the child.

Personally I'd have said the child shouldn't be named at all, for privacy and safeguarding. I don't see what 'outing' them has to do with anything.