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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I find this disappointing from Lady Hale

92 replies

theDudesmummy · 22/05/2025 19:55

Part-way down the piece: “I was with some doctors last week who said there is no such thing as biological sex,” she said.

What in earth is that supposed to mean? Sex is a biological descriptor. Does she believe this nonsense? Surely not? Am I misunderstanding something?

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/may/22/court-ruling-legal-definition-of-a-woman-misinterpreted-lady-hale?CMP=share_btn_url

Court ruling on legal definition of a woman ‘misinterpreted’, Lady Hale says

Speaking at book festival in east Sussex, former supreme court president says reaction to judgment ‘very binary’

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/may/22/court-ruling-legal-definition-of-a-woman-misinterpreted-lady-hale?CMP=share_btn_url

OP posts:
porridgecake · 23/05/2025 09:48

DontStopMe · 23/05/2025 09:21

Lots of really, really clever people are only really, really clever in their own area, but think their cleverness applies everywhere.

This is true. Another aspect to this is that sometimes extremely clever/intellectual people appear to have no common sense at all.
Ditto actors/models/celebrities believing that their opinions on all manner of things should be taken seriously by the rest of us.

DrBlackbird · 23/05/2025 09:41

OldCrone · 23/05/2025 08:15

If biological sex doesn't exist, then doesn't that mean that trans people don't exist either, since they want to be (or think they are) the opposite sex? You can't transition from one sex to the other if neither sex exists in the first place.

Lady Hale seems a bit transphobic with her denial of the existence of trans people.

I think the TRA argument is that sex does exist but gender identity is more important so if you feel that you are a woman that is the criteria to be accepted as a woman. Why cleverly it went from transsexual to transgender. No need for surgery or drugs. Just feelings.

ThatCyanCat · 23/05/2025 09:38

I can understand why people think they're being nice to trans people. I can't understand why they don't care about also being nice to women and children who have been demonstrably harmed by this. I don't understand why they are OK with not being nice to women who will be excluded from certain spheres of life if they can't have single sex spaces and why a woman is wrong if she doesn't want to change alongside a man.

I really can't understand that.

DrBlackbird · 23/05/2025 09:35

borntobequiet · 23/05/2025 08:14

Just further confirms my understanding that however clever, well-educated and elevated they might be, some people are deluded enough to believe any old nonsense, however ridiculous, if they think it’s in their interest/makes them look like a good person/is socially acceptable in the circles they move in.

This could describe most of my colleagues. Only they genuinely believe it’s being kind. Gender identity is like Japanese knotweed and will take years to pull out of the bag of ‘progressive’ thinking. Even then, it’s likely that only continuous law suits will do it. Bit like Purdue Pharma was only stopped because of thousands of simultaneous law suits in the US. Meanwhile, the damage has been done to thousands.

DontStopMe · 23/05/2025 09:21

Lots of really, really clever people are only really, really clever in their own area, but think their cleverness applies everywhere.

ThatCyanCat · 23/05/2025 09:14

Orwell once said that some ideas are so stupid, only intellectuals believe them.

Coatsoff42 · 23/05/2025 09:07

Continualloop · 23/05/2025 08:08

I agree with this except sex has always been clear because men want something from women, including now. Sex is clear now, as if it weren’t they wouldn’t be bothered about accessing women’s spaces. It’s because sex is VERY clear to them that they want into our spaces.

How is it sex traffickers know what a woman is, but the politicians in this country don’t? It’s all intellectual wankery.

DontStopMe · 23/05/2025 08:58

I'm also disappointed that the spider brooch she wore when giving judgment on Boris Johnson's attempt to prorogue parliament wasn't actually a reference to The Who's Boris the Spider.

AlexandraLeaving · 23/05/2025 08:50

It does seem disappointing - assuming she is being correctly reported. There is a bit more in what she is reported to have said about the reaction to the SC ruling being disappointing and binary, which is perhaps a fairer assessment. She’s right that the ruling doesn’t mean organisers have to provide single sex facilities, just that if they do provide single sex facilities they actually have to be single sex. And some of the TRA reactions to the judgment have been hyperbolic in the extreme rather than pragmatic (I have not seen the same from the sex realist side of the “debate”).

As for the quote ascribed to her daughter, FFS! I despair at the non sequiturs and lack of critical thinking.

Proudtobeanortherner · 23/05/2025 08:48

I read that and wondered whether the Guardian has been desperately searching for someone to support this view seeing as they haven’t said a lot in support of the SC ruling. Sad that once again she’s focussed on shared toilet facilities as if that is the only problem.

nauticant · 23/05/2025 08:46

borntobequiet · 23/05/2025 08:14

Just further confirms my understanding that however clever, well-educated and elevated they might be, some people are deluded enough to believe any old nonsense, however ridiculous, if they think it’s in their interest/makes them look like a good person/is socially acceptable in the circles they move in.

An old one (that's always being wheeled out) but a good one:

There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them. -George Orwell.

Rightsraptor · 23/05/2025 08:38

I'm glad she's a retired judge.

Igmum · 23/05/2025 08:34

Well thank heavens she’s retired and isn’t sitting in judgment on these issues any more.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/05/2025 08:22

Continualloop · 23/05/2025 08:08

I agree with this except sex has always been clear because men want something from women, including now. Sex is clear now, as if it weren’t they wouldn’t be bothered about accessing women’s spaces. It’s because sex is VERY clear to them that they want into our spaces.

This.

People like India Willoughby know who they want to share changing rooms with and who they don't want to share changing rooms with, don't they?

OldCrone · 23/05/2025 08:15

If biological sex doesn't exist, then doesn't that mean that trans people don't exist either, since they want to be (or think they are) the opposite sex? You can't transition from one sex to the other if neither sex exists in the first place.

Lady Hale seems a bit transphobic with her denial of the existence of trans people.

borntobequiet · 23/05/2025 08:14

Just further confirms my understanding that however clever, well-educated and elevated they might be, some people are deluded enough to believe any old nonsense, however ridiculous, if they think it’s in their interest/makes them look like a good person/is socially acceptable in the circles they move in.

ArabellaScott · 23/05/2025 08:14

Well, she's made herself look a right twerp, hasn't she.

Continualloop · 23/05/2025 08:08

Coatsoff42 · 22/05/2025 23:47

Only now, when men want something from women, is biological sex unclear. For thousands of years, where women were treated as property, unable to vote, or own property, or get an education, it was very clear, as it is very clear in parts of the world today like Afghanistan. There’s no head scratching there about does sex exist or is it just a vibe you feel.
It infuriates me that men think taking some hormones and getting a boob job means they understand what it is like to be in a body that would have left you cornered and powerless for most of history, regardless of any ‘male energy’.

I agree with this except sex has always been clear because men want something from women, including now. Sex is clear now, as if it weren’t they wouldn’t be bothered about accessing women’s spaces. It’s because sex is VERY clear to them that they want into our spaces.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/05/2025 08:06

Continualloop · 23/05/2025 08:04

She hasn’t used her brain to come to the conclusion she has though. If she had to sit through the evidence the judges of the SC did, she very well would not have been able to continue to hold the position she thinks she does now.

Surely she of all people knows that she should not be commenting on the Supreme Court judgment if she hasn't read and understood it.

Continualloop · 23/05/2025 08:04

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/05/2025 07:48

Oh no wait, I am confusing her with Lady Haldane.

Lady Hale!!!

Fuck a duck.

Just goes to show that this pernicious ideology is capable of rotting even the finest brains.

She hasn’t used her brain to come to the conclusion she has though. If she had to sit through the evidence the judges of the SC did, she very well would not have been able to continue to hold the position she thinks she does now.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/05/2025 07:52

lady hale sent Julia to all girls school - how did she know given how biological sex isn’t a thing?

dame Julia is a lesbian so how does she know which sex she is attracted too?

I mean ffs

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/05/2025 07:48

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/05/2025 07:43

Oh, Lady Hale is just salty because the Supreme Court overturned her judgment.

Oh no wait, I am confusing her with Lady Haldane.

Lady Hale!!!

Fuck a duck.

Just goes to show that this pernicious ideology is capable of rotting even the finest brains.

BeatrizBoniface · 23/05/2025 07:47

OldCrone · 22/05/2025 20:33

Probably PhDs in gender studies.

This ⬆️

Continualloop · 23/05/2025 07:46

If sex didn’t exist, nobody could be trans or have sex ( gender) dysphoria.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/05/2025 07:44

mrshoho · 22/05/2025 20:00

Was it Dr Helen and Dr Mike Webberley by any chance?

Are you still allowed to call yourself a doctor if you've been struck off the medical register?

Asking for a friend Mike Webberley.