Consultation has reopened 20/05/25

My opinion on the age that it's OK to bring boys into the ladies toilet or changing room is 10 is fine but is the top end, but its better to give that as a guideline than getting it too low. If you say 'under 8 only) they too young. I basically held on longer than I should when my son was young at a local swimming pool because I wasn't happy sending him in alone.

Men also have longer fingers so they can stretch them over the other balls to take a shot that a women with smaller hands wouldn’t be able to take without touching the other balls.

Yeah I guess so, you could argue it for most sports - just would have been nice if they said something along the lines of it doesn’t have to be just because of physical differences. Like a girls only rugby team is justified because of lack of participation from girls AND physical differences

There are physical male advantages in snooker/pool. Men are generally taller so can lean further across the table. Even men who are short have a longer arm reach (wing span) than women do which is advantageous for tricky shots. They can also pot the balls with more power. It might be less apparent than other sports but the advantage is there.

I don’t understand some of the sports examples. The boxing one - a competition for men that a trans man wants to join. I would have thought the answer was ‘no because you are female’ but apparently it is ‘probably no because of the strength differences’??

Yes I understand. I would hope such facilities would be able to have a floor to door gap too so that it could be a prevention and safeguarding measure. Unfortunately the more research I have done, the more I realised a mixed sex adult-child pair should not be afforded more privacy than a same sex adult-child pair.

It’s a difficult balance. But mixed sex toilets are always enclosed and private in document T. Changing rooms not always.

Also not sure if it was clear enough around the issue of sport where there is no clear sex based physical advantage, like pool/snooker, but women could still be disadvantaged because of issues like lack of opportunity to play, feeling uncomfortable going to pool clubs etc

I think it’s generally good.

I would also have liked examples around single sex groups where safety is not an issue - like women only reading clubs for example, can they legally refuse to admit trans women even though there is no safety or privacy issue (I think they can and should be able to but it isn’t very clear).

Also I think allowing people to change sex on their birth certificates is madness but that isn’t going to be dealt with here!

I also would like this addressed specifically. It should be fully enclosed with its own sink and toilet in to be classed as ‘universal’ ie mixed sex in Document T. This came into regs in 2024. I would like to know what happens pre 2024.

Reading that blurb. If someone has a GRC what then?

Maybe it’s in the rest of the doc

It's ridiculous having birth certificates that may or may not record sex accurately.

But if the trans community abuse their birth certificates in their acquired gender, i can see this guidance being very difficult to carry out with tact.

Ah thank you.
8 hadn't read the consultation so didn't realise it was a proposal to comment on.
The article isn't clear it's a consultation they make it sound like this is the new guidance.

Two things.

I think a mixed sex option is pretty important in list settings. I have a Sen child who is currently only 7 and I can't imagine he would be capable of going in the men's alone now or in a couple of years. I also would feels it's wrong taking him into the ladies by then too.

Our local swimming pool has mixed sex changing with cubicles and then separate toilets and showers. You do however end up walking from the showers across to the lockers and cubicles in just a towel. I'm wary of exhibitionists or voyers as there are gaps at floor level.

This is probably the best solution for me personally as a fully enclosed room has safety concerns as above but I don't like risking my privacy for the sake of accessibility. The only solution I can see if having all options available and everyone takes the best option for them. Warnings on the door of the enclosed space plus frequent staff checks.

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On another note. Can't people change the letter on their birth certificate and passport? What happens if a nearly passing or androgenous tw comes in. Staff or users challenge them, tw insists they are female and shows passport/BC. What do staff do at that point?

This is long but I’m interested to know what pp think

EHRC guidance
2.2.7 A trans woman goes to the office of a local support group and makes enquiries with the receptionist about the group counselling sessions they offer. Based on the needs of its service users, the group provides different sessions that are single-sex or mixed-sex. The receptionist reasonably thinks that the trans woman is a biological male and, as there are some other people waiting in the office, asks her to come into a side room to get more details about the support she is looking for. When they are in private, the receptionist explains the different group sessions that are offered and asks the trans woman what her birth sex is. When she confirms her birth sex, the receptionist provides her with the details of the mixed-sex groups she could attend.

2.2.8 If there is genuine concern about the accuracy of the response to a question about birth sex, then a birth certificate could be requested. For the vast majority of individuals, this will be an accurate statement of their birth sex. However, it should be noted that a birth certificate may not be a definitive indication of birth sex. If a person has a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) they may have obtained an amended birth certificate in their acquired gender. In the unlikely event that it is decided that further enquiries are needed, such as confirmation as to whether a person has a GRC, then any additional requests should be made in a proportionate way which is discreet and sensitive.

2.2.9 It is important to be aware of legal provisions protecting privacy in the context of making such enquiries. If, in the course of these enquiries or otherwise, a service provider, those exercising public functions or an association acquires information that someone has a GRC or has applied for a GRC, onward disclosure of either that information or their biological sex without consent may be a criminal offence in some circumstances (read section 22 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004).

The other thing I don’t see specifically addressed (and even Sex Matters seems to skate round it on their website?), is where toilets are billed as gender neutral/mixed sex and have separate “rooms” with floor to ceiling doors, but the sinks are outside in a communal area.

I think this doesn’t/shouldn’t count as single sex, but I know several employers (including city law firms) and public spaces like theatres and galleries that do this.

Are they waiting for case law to justify this? Should this be addressed in the guidance?

I suppose they have a point. If we believe that some women unintentionally pass as men.

For men transitioners, showing a birth certificate and a GRC excludes them from the women only space. If they want to use the space, its in their interest not to show the GRC and just pretend not to have one, just like the millions(at least!) of women who will also be challenged.

It makes sense for women transitioner who need to use the service. They may look male, have a male bc, but the GRC proves that they are female.

Being a vegan is/can be a protected characteristic. It comes under protected beliefs. Same a gender critical belief.

I’m beginning to think that Gender Reassignment should not ever have been included as a protected characteristic, I know you can’t tie rights to surgery but it makes as much sense as being a goth or vegan a protected characteristic.

There's a bit of a grey area with primary aged boys. I'd say 8-10 is enough leeway dependant on the child - how mature they are, how old they look, whether they have any SN. Also as you say, the location.

I have 3 sons (all adult now) and somewhere around 8/9 they all stopped wanting to go in with me because it made them uncomfortable. One of the rare upsides of 3 boys close in age was they could be sent in the men's toilets together or in a pair to keep an eye on each other.

It's changing facilities that are more tricky, not just because of risk but also because they lose stuff, have difficulty operating lockers, might be silly and mess about etc.

Which I suppose is why most places have the unisex changing village type facilities now. Which are a great idea in theory but I suspect will have had their share of issues if you could see the complaints data for all of them.

Does anyone have an archived version of this or a share token?

I meant that an additional gender neutral option would allow parents to take opposite sex children with them. Many parents with older children with SEND and carers with opposite sex clients would also find it very helpful not to have to send them into a single sex facility alone.

The EHRC have published their proposed changes to the existing code of practice in draft form, and the consultation invites comments on the specific changes they’re proposing.

It wasn’t prove their sex but they can be discreetly and in private asked their sex at birth. The example wasn’t a shop but a group I think, and there was single sex and mixed sex group. The receptionist didn’t think the person looked female so took the trans woman into a private room to ask sex at birth and then direct the person to the appropriate service. IIRC

I don’t think you can put an exact age on it, it’s generally primary school age/prepubescent is ok. So 10 is about the maximum. It depends on the location (dodgy public loos v nice hotel pool for example ), and the capability and maturity of the child.
I only have daughters but do have a 4 year old nephew and definitely wouldn’t send him into the loo or changing room by himself, for his safety and also because god knows what he’d get up to in there unsupervised! My 9 year old nephew would be fine alone and wouldn’t want to come in to the ladies anyway.

I've just seen this saying the updated guidance is out?
And people can be asked to prove their sex?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/05/20/shops-can-question-trans-people-in-changing-rooms/

I'm confused about this and the consultation.?