LGBA on Woman's Hour 19/05/25

This would have been a great point to get across in the WH interview today.

I think that a lot of the reasoning from the TWAW massive comes from a need to constantly be on higher moral ground than those around them.

Until recently higher moral ground has been defined by only one side.

People like Kate Barker are now demonstrating that the true moral high ground lies in protecting existing women's rights rather than eroding them

Yes, I liked that. We’re so used to being told we must be inclusive all the time, to every person in every situation. And yes, overall, inclusivity is a good thing and something we should all aim for, but there must be exceptions! Some groups and situations can legitimately discriminate.

I can’t join a children’s gymnastics club or a support group for people with disabilities or a lesbian book club or a men’s mental health support group because I am not a child, do not have a disability, am not a lesbian and am not a man. I am not in the least bit offended that I am not welcome to join those groups. Most sane people are not offended by being excluded from groups where they do not belong.

It says such a lot about the ego of a person who will not only attempt to join a group they do not belong in, but to then loudly complain about being rejected, and claim victimhood.

And were they ever interrupted as much! Listening to the interview now, and the interviewer is determined to dictate the subject, always circling back, and not letting Kate finish her points.

Did any of the interviewers ever say to Robin White or the Amnesty guy that some people listening might find your views offensive?

Reading this thread in full I MAYYY switch WH back on after my distain for Nuala and Helen last week. I didn't even bother with the AI shambles having read the comments on these chats... but so glad Kate did well and was able to state her position firmly!

ETA Helen was amazing, it is just WH approach to interview vs what I heard when they "interviewed" Robin that set me on edge I felt it was so imbalanced!

I didn't notice that they pointed out that RMW had assumed the pronouns of literally everyone he spoke about all the time in his interview. It's all one way 'be nice to the man' every so often.

RMW likes to try and compel everyone to use the pronouns 'she/her' about him - did the interviewer ask what pronouns Kate would like to have used? If not, why not? Maybe her pronouns are 'I'm sick of this coercive bullshit' my 'gender based' pronouns certainly are at this point.

Happy for sex realists to use sex based pronouns for me, however.

It's up on Sounds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002cdl6

It's not balanced if they're not also giving those nudge nudge asides in the interviews with the fellas ( I didn't listen so I can't comment).

I think @thenoisiesttermagant made a good point about the language and assumptions. My language does not belong to either RMW or the BBC.

It has irritated me that Nuala says 'Robin uses the pronouns she/her'.

not me. As (I think) both Helen and the one today (Bev?) mentioned: RMW has a very deep, imposing voice. I can very well believe people might well need that reminder.

ETA. sorry, the guest today was Kate.

Yes, that was also my view of Anita Rani's segment. Which surprised me.

I wonder if Nuala and Anita and the production team had a long meeting to determine which tack to take now after the SC judgment. Anita was definitely a lot firmer with the AI guy than her previous stance (remembering the excruciatingly fawning interview with Paris Lees).

Ah, and that’s the irony isn’t it? Yes YOU must include them, but no I wouldn’t date one…

If someone's after the reference it's this:

https://x.com/Lorna9100M/status/1810741194282127786

The screenshot tweet from a TRA-type stayed up for a very long time and I was sad the day I found the original had been deleted.

It has irritated me that Nuala says 'Robin uses the pronouns she/her'.

This is incorrect, Robin demands that OTHERS use the pronouns 'she/her' about him. He is demanding something of others.

I'm considering 'using' the pronouns 'he/him' in all circumstances just so I don't have to bow down before abusive males. Because honestly, it's only abusive males that really give a tiny shit and it's because they want to control women.

EVERYONE will just be he/him. Yes, it'll be difficult but if we're 'using' whatever pronouns we want surely that can apply across the board. I won't be discriminating against anyone. It will be one rule for all.

The language is inaccurate and coercive. Robin can use whatever the fuck pronouns he wishes in his speech, and does because usually he assumes sex-based pronouns for most people. I didn't notice if he asked Nuala her pronouns before they started? I bet he didn't. No, it's all about compelled language for biological women so they are less able to deny his access to their spaces.

I think the presenters on WH have been great for this series. I won't bother listening to the Amnesty one but I felt that the questioning of Helen and RMW was very fair, sounds like LGBA has also been treated fairly and I'm looking forward to listening to it eventually.

You mean they're not inclusive 'for relationship purposes'?

TWAW in the streets, terf in the sheets, is the phrase, irrc

Imo this is what most of the who-ha boils down to.

Well, quite a few women are “trans inclusive” - possibly because they don’t properly understand the problems, or have swallowed the be kind mantra, or genuinely just don’t care, so it’s not surprising that some lesbians are too.

It’s irrelevant to the judgement or its consequences.

Although, Nuala did have a point about some lesbians being trans inclusive because I have seen people take that position. However, as Kate said, they are free to do so, but now lesbians such as Kate are free not to

All of my lesbian friends are "trans inclusive" but not one of them has dated a TW.

.

There'll be a producer hissing things like "she/her!" in Nuala's ear.

Another good listen. I think Nuala is getting better. Even though I get the distinct impression she has a producer holding up a sign in front of her that says:

DON'T FORGET:

• RMW IS A SHE/HER
• TO SAY OTHERS WILL BE OFFENDED BY HER VIEWS!!!!

From Wiki

In April 2014, Radio 4's Roger Bolton noted on the BBC's Feedback Blog: "As you well know BBC programmes are supposed to be impartial but I'm not sure if that can be said of Woman's Hour, at least when it comes to feminism. Woman's Hour is in fact a powerful advocate for women's empowerment and this week as part of that campaign it produced its second power list."

The segment can be heard here...

https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1924402945547730968?t=VFHxH38br_9kUju_wL-ZAQ&s=19