Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Good Law Project suing the EHRC and Bridget Phillipson - letter before action

410 replies

OhBuggerandArse · 16/05/2025 15:30

Sorry if this has already been shared - here are the links to their letter and statement. Looking forward to the Mumsnet analysis :-)

https://goodlawproject.org/were-bringing-a-legal-challenge-to-the-ehrcs-interim-update

https://goodlawproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Letter-to-the-Equality-and-Human-Rights-Commission-16-May-2025_Redacted.pdf

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 16/05/2025 21:23

TracyCruz · 16/05/2025 17:07

He's a tax lawyer. Tax and Toilets both start with a T, as does Trans. It's a tenuous link but all I've got.

Twat also begins with T, and he’s definitely one of those.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 16/05/2025 21:21

eatfigs · 16/05/2025 16:51

Jolyon has posted a video here for his fans: https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/1923371695210893724

What’s with the incessant blinking?! He looks like someone on the edge of sanity.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 16/05/2025 21:18

Just out of interest - when Maugham pursues these cases, does he do it at some reduced rate or is he essentially drumming up hopeless business for himself?

How much does he charge?

Has he already paid himself a nice dollop of cash for the holidays for preparing the letter to send to the EHRC and Bridget Phillipson?

Grumpsy · 16/05/2025 21:16

A fool and his money are easily parted. All those that donated to this would have been better off having a bonfire with it, it leads to the same end.

fromorbit · 16/05/2025 21:06

GLP already screwing up not even clear if they are going do anything;

Richard Dunstan
Sending a letter before action is not "starting legal proceedings". The very point of a Pre-Action Protocol LBA is to "try to settle the dispute without [legal] proceedings".

The Good Law Project have previously had to apologise for making such misleading statements:
https://x.com/Wonkypolicywonk/status/1923399139758313775

Maya Forstater
The Good Law Project's 32 page letter before action to the EHRC

The whole thing is answered by Art 8(2) - govts (and regulated bodies etc…) infringe on people’s private life and autonomy all the time. They have to so by a means that is lawful & proportionate for a reason under 8(2) - this requires clear rules (and yes they apply to you).

A couple of years ago we held a legal seminar where I presented the Sex Matters argument that sex in the Equality Act means biological sex. A senior lawyer presented the case that sex in the EqA means "legal sex" but that it creates problems, and there was discussion with the audience (I know, radical idea, right?)

A judge who was in the audience crossed his arms and leaned back and said to me, as if he had dropped the mic "you will have to deal with Article 8".

He was right. Trans rights are privacy rights. But people's privacy and autonomy is curtailed all of the time for lawful reasons, as provided for by the qualifications in Art8(2).

The FWS judgment does deal with Art 8 (the right to respect for private and family life). Article 8 doesn't require magic, and it can't do magic.

But the other thing that is often forgotten is that everyone has the same Art 8 rights.

And the primary purpose of article 8 is to protect against arbitrary interferences with private and family life, home, and correspondence by a public authority.

Clarity about the law is important to article 8, since without clarity the state may capriciously intervene in people’s private life.

The phrase “in accordance with the law” in Art 8(2) implies that the law must be sufficiently foreseeable that individuals have an adequate indication as to the circumstances in which the authorities are entitled to limit their freedoms (such as by putting up signs telling them not to go into places).

Legal ambiguity over whether sex and other associated words mean biological sex or sex as modified by a gender recognition certificate (or even self-declared “gender identity”) put the foreseeability of the law in question.

The same is true about lawful rules (including those that are communicated with simple symbols 🚹🚺🚻).

If you put up this sign 🚺 that means no men allowed in.

➡️ It is lawful to discriminate against men in this situation.
➡️ It is reasonable for women to expect that there will be no men trying to come in, and they can challenge or report any that try it on.

So if you are a man - this sign 🚺 (and the expectation that you comply with it just like everyone else) is not an unlawful infringement on your Article 8 rights.

In fact the clarity of the rule supports your Art 8 rights.

https://x.com/Wonkypolicywonk/status/1923399139758313775

CarefulN0w · 16/05/2025 20:50

The trouble when people back themselves into a corner so publicly is that is hard to find a route out. Which Helen Joyce explains a lot more elegantly than me.

Teens can change their minds. And quietly crack on with their lives (at least they can if they haven’t been harmed by cross hormones). Their parents not so much.

NecessaryScene · 16/05/2025 20:27

when he says eminent KCs have told him he's got a slam dunk, they're probably just saying that to get rid of him.

"So he's got £500,000 of crowdfunding money, he's desperate for any advice on how to get the ECtHR to declare a bad court thingy on the UK Supreme Court, and we get to keep our names off it?"

"Yep."

"Go for it. Just for god's sake don't even hint that we'd actually represent him in court - there's a remote chance he might actually try it for real. You know my wife reads Tribunal Tweets."

RareGoalsVerge · 16/05/2025 20:25

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/05/2025 15:50

Never interrupt your enemy in the midst of making a mistake

I can’t wait for the fox botherer and his band of merry thems to have their day in court

This is the thing I am really needing to remind myself. It's far better that they waste their money and time on this futile tantrum rather than doing anything that might actually make a difference.

proximalhumerous · 16/05/2025 20:21

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/05/2025 18:23

Maugham is not just a former tax lawyer. Although he doesn't practise as a barrister any more he still identifies as a KC, i.e. supposedly one of the most senior and skilled barristers in the UK. In other circumstances, I suppose he might have tried to become a judge, so we should probably be very grateful that he's gone off in this other direction.

Haven't watched the video or read the letter. There seems little point. Is it all about transwomen, or do transmen get a look in?

If I had a young girl or woman close to me who identified as male or non-binary, I would be worried sick about her going into male changing rooms, toilets etc, over and above all the worry about possible medical and surgical treatments she might want to inflict on herself. I can't imagine advocating for reverting to the pre-SC days when Stonewall law said transmen were fine in all-male settings. But there we are, we're all different.

Although he doesn't practise as a barrister any more he still identifies as a KC...

So he's familiar with the idea of identifying as something that you're not, then.

SionnachRuadh · 16/05/2025 20:13

There's a good possibility they've taken legal advice from themselves.

Which works in our favour, because Jolyon's legal expertise is mostly in the area of helping Gary Barlow minimise his tax bill, and when he says eminent KCs have told him he's got a slam dunk, they're probably just saying that to get rid of him.

WallaceinAnderland · 16/05/2025 20:12

The EHRC cannot change UK law. So even it agreed that men should be given access to female only spaces, this would not be law in the UK.

SpidersAreShitheads · 16/05/2025 20:03

From my very rudimentary understanding of law, I would hope that this doesn't stand a chance. But surely they have taken legal advice and it's concerning that they clearly think they might win.

Do we have any legal people here who can comment on whether they actually have a chance?

I mean, my logical brain says no, but there have been so many ridiculous things happening in recent years, I honestly have zero confidence any more.

BellissimoGecko · 16/05/2025 19:28

Nameychangington · 16/05/2025 15:52

The intersex claimant will also require the Minister and EHRC to explain what spaces intersex people should use and how that stance complies with the law.

This is so offensive to people with DSDs. Everyone with a DSD knows full well what sex they are and what toilets are for them. DSDs are nothing to do with gender ideology and using people with a rare medical condition to try to prop up your ideology is really fucking low. I'd bet my house this 'intersex' individual is just a common or garden AGP.

Quite.

SionnachRuadh · 16/05/2025 19:26

As a Vulpes vulpes, I am sorely tempted to take the day off work and go along to court to observe the result.

I may have some useful first aid skills in case Jolyon is in danger of harrumphing himself to death.

Hoardasurass · 16/05/2025 19:26

loveyouradvice · 16/05/2025 19:22

I find this particularly chilling....over 10,000 people are funding it so far....

£390,341.54 raised of £425,000

10003 donations

That's just under £40 each

loveyouradvice · 16/05/2025 19:22

I find this particularly chilling....over 10,000 people are funding it so far....

£390,341.54 raised of £425,000

10003 donations

NotmeMother · 16/05/2025 19:19

How about The Good Lawd Project.

MoistVonL · 16/05/2025 19:15

NotAtMyAge · 16/05/2025 18:53

He has three daughters, the eldest of whom is trans-identified. I notice that Wikipedia now no longer mentions his family, but until recently listed him as having a son and two daughters.

I was under the impression the middle one did so now as well. But I can’t find the source just at the moment.

But totally not a social contagion. Nope.

NormalAuntFanny · 16/05/2025 19:05

TangenitalContrivences · 16/05/2025 16:31

posting this so people can compare and contrast comments on this side, from the other side, and see what the chances might actually be of this working:

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1ko1425/good_law_project_bringing_a_legal_challenge_to/

This last one is just so pathetic, really makes one feel sorry for these mentally ill people who've been sucked into this sort of delusional behaviour with endless validation.

Good Law Project suing the EHRC and Bridget Phillipson - letter before action
Peacepleaselouise · 16/05/2025 18:54

Makes me so angry when disabled adults and child are having their protections systematically ripped away that the good law project is busy worrying about this.

NotAtMyAge · 16/05/2025 18:53

MoistVonL · 16/05/2025 18:31

Is it all about transwomen, or do transmen get a look in?

Doesn’t Foxy have two daughters who both claim to be transmen? So you’d think he’d be concerned about them.

He has three daughters, the eldest of whom is trans-identified. I notice that Wikipedia now no longer mentions his family, but until recently listed him as having a son and two daughters.

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 16/05/2025 18:52

I'm not impressed by the argument that the ruling only applies to the EA and can therefore be ignored when other rules apply, such as the workplace regulations.

The EA applies to everything. If regulations say 'provide single-sex facilities', then Schedule 3 para 27 is engaged, and must be complied with.

What kind of lawyers are these?

Lemonz · 16/05/2025 18:50

Fair enough, but a lot of people did actually say similar things about the women who found themselves imprisoned with Karen White and similar situations.

Nameychangington · 16/05/2025 18:41

Lemonz · 16/05/2025 18:29

That's silly. Not only guilty people find themselves involved with the police. You can be suspected of something you didn't actually do. Not to mention criminals also have human rights and deserve to be treated with dignity.

We rightly wouldn't accept the argument that if women don't want to be searched by male officers or imprisoned with male prisoners, they should just not commit crimes. We shouldn't make this argument either.

The point is that it's not a violation of your rights to be treated like any other member of your sex.

It was meant to be a joke.

If I thought my human rights were under threat and people were literally trying to make me not exist, being searched by the police would be so far down my list of priorities, but apparently it's of critical moment to transwomen.

Seethlaw · 16/05/2025 18:33

LittleBitofBread · 16/05/2025 18:04

Precisely this. What a lot of sound and fury. Why aren't they fundraising and campaigning for, say, awareness-raising about how gender-non-conforming men in men's spaces shouldn't be subjected to violence or ridicule? I mean, I might even support that.

At best, they don't want to be seen as gender-non-confirming men by men. They want to be seen as women by women.

At worst, they are predators of various types.