Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

Nobody in their right mind would willingly choose to be trans.

Stopping watching sissy porn would help.

In the last 8 weeks I’ve read over 100 NHS policies. I can confirm that there’s no sign of a protected single sex space for patients or staff anywhere to be seen. There’s a few of us reading and we will keep going until we prove it for the whole of the UK. But singles spaces are already gone - you’ve just not realised. I was completely unaware until the Sandie Peggie case. Like most people. Anywhere women-only has been challenged and boundaries pushed by aggressive males. It’s not like your mates

Men who identify as trans want to use the women in women only spaces; gender neutral spaces give them neither the validation nor sexual satisfaction they desire.

But that is EXACTLY what 'TERFs' have also argued for, for many many years!

Your comment, according to TRA's, is transphobic! Are you starting to get it now?

Er..sorry, that entirely reasonable view makes you a terf. Expect the 'die in a grease fire' threats to follow shortly.

They are fully protected in the Equality Act. As for wishes of harm, it's extremely clear that there are far more TRAs hoping for and threatening rape and death upon women than there are women calling for any kind of harm to trans people. (I would say I've never seen it but once or twice I did see a woman, referring to a particularly odious person, hoping he got an infection in the surgical wound he called a vagina. I've certainly never seen women carrying signs calling to stab, decapitate, shoot or hang trans people.)

Again, you need to direct your attention elsewhere if this is the concern. It is hard to believe you haven't realised that.

This is exactly what the vast majority of women described as ´terfs’ want.

I am lesbian and I am completely in agreement with the Supreme Court Judgement. Women and especially lesbians have been seen as fair game over the last 15 years, and no one has ever been concerned about our rights feelings dignity or privacy. For those of us that don’t centre men, whatever they want to identify as, the Court judgement explicitly protected us and our needs were central. Which made a bloody change. But still programmes like this still centre the men and their feels. I note that there must be shit flying at WH headquarters as it is still not up to listen again. Surprised that Anita managed to get women into the conversation at least twice. This was actually remarkable.

I believe in women only spaces AND gender neutral spaces, which would provide support for everyone who needs it.

Sadly so many of these CEOs circulate round charities leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.

Don't they just? Then onto the next charity. Leaving the rest of us to reframe our trauma.

Full of his own importance and iffy staments that don't stand up to scrutiny.

There's an awful lot of it about.

Sadly so many of these CEOs circulate round charities leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.

I certainly don't think women only spaces should be taken away. But having been on the gay scene for such a long time and around trans people, I recognize their need for protection, too. I don't like to wish harm on anyone (at least those who have not done anything to warrant it).

That bloke was the CEO of Amnesty wasn't he? He earns a hell of a salary on the back of donations. I'm glad I stopped mine and sent them elsewhere.
He used to work for War Child UK.( Which had a bribery scandal way back, don't know if he was there then.)
He was blooming appalling today. What bullshit he talked.
He had clearly not even read the Judgement despite AI having made submissions to the SC. Full of his own importance and iffy staments that don't stand up to scrutiny.

Tone comes across in writing. Often received quite differently to how we thought we were expressing ourselves. Unfortunately you made a number of snarky remarks up thread. You can’t reasonably complain now you’re receiving some back. To say “I’ve not read your comment but…. “ then (paraphrasing) accuse that person of not listening to your arguments is completely double standards. This is supposed to be a thread about a conversation on Woman’s Hour and you arrived saying it was a waste of time (we should be concerned about Andrew Tate) but your wasting our time not talking about the thread topic. In the politest way possible- why not leave this thread and find one on Andrew Tate as I’d like to get back to Amnesty and you’re not contributing much to that. Have a good day!

Yes, we’ve all seen women being threatened with rape and death online, often from TRAs funnily enough. As you appear to be part of that community, you should probably address that if you want to support women.

Edinburgh rape crisis centre didn't maintain single sex spaces and had a male ceo who said that women using their services would be challenged on their prejudices* and should reframe their trauma. They wouldn't even confirm to women using their services that they would only be seen by a woman

*that prejudice being that they don't believe TWAW

How do you define ‘lesbian’ @jenfw ?

Trans rights activists think that the term lesbian includes trans-identifying males, the vast majority of whom have not had reassignment surgery on their genitals and expect that lesbian women accept their ‘lady dick’. Lesbian dating apps have been flooded with such men and lesbians have been told they are ‘sexual racists’ because they are only attracted to female bodies. How is this ok?

If you are following this issue closely enough to be participating in these discussions then you ought to be well aware of several high profile cases in which single sex spaces have been destroyed - illegally, it is now confirmed - and that it's happening in many other places too. (You'd also know "intersex" is outdated, offensive bunkum and if you're in favour of single sex plus third spaces, it's hard to see why you thought DSDs were relevant at all.)

However, if you're truly in favour of good provisions of single plus mixed sex facilities, then great, the terfs are behind you. The TRAs are not, though, so the best use of your resources is to persuade them.

I'm not sure where you are but the counties around me (I'm landlocked), have all maintained women only spaces, including dv centres. There have been a sprinkling of support for trans people.

Yes, as the CEO of the charity, which has been going for over 40 years, is a lesbian. She wants protection for everyone at risk of violence. They also provide rehabilitation for offenders, who are 99.9 per cent straight men.

Does anyone know why I can't watch it on catch up yet please?

Bizarrely it’s still not available for download. Maybe the BBC have realised how bad AI came across and someone’s kicking up a fuss?

Ah. Jen I think you are so indignant because you believe that transgender ideology has NOT already removed single-sex services and facilities from women. But in many places, it has -- my son's sixth form college, for instance, and my daughter's university loos, and as you've heard on this thread, the changing rooms used by the Darlington and the Fife nurses, and the Brighton rape survivors' group.

If you disagree with all of this -- you are saying the same things as Datun.

Incidentally, I've been lurking around FWR for years and I don't ever recall seeing Datun swear. So, well, I guess that's an achievement.

I think you’ll find they are absolutely not provided in some areas. In Sussex there is an upcoming court case precisely because a Rape Crisis service is refusing to provide a single sex counselling session for female victims. They provide male only, trans only and mixed sex sessions that include men who identify as women (no dresses required).

This is typical of many centres throughout the UK.