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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

458 replies

nauticant · 16/05/2025 10:21

With Anita Rani. I am not expecting much in the way of challenges.

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Ramblingnamechanger · 16/05/2025 17:18

I thought the later version might have been slightly shorter, but could have been my imagination as I didn’t time either.

soupycustard · 16/05/2025 17:13

@ScrollingLeaves
Great post.

BundleBoogie · 16/05/2025 17:13

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:02

I'm not sure where you are but the counties around me (I'm landlocked), have all maintained women only spaces, including dv centres. There have been a sprinkling of support for trans people.

That’s good. I think you’ll probably find if you read the policies that most include men in the category of women so while they might claim to provide female only services, they actually don’t.

In various places the Rape Crisis Centres have found their funding to be dependent on including men in the female category.

Imagine being the campaign group that pushed for funding to be removed from women’s Rape Crisis Centres unless they centred men (who may or may not wear dresses, as they’ve pointed out, they don’t owe us gender ‘conforming’ outfits). That’s Stonewall that is.

Datun · 16/05/2025 17:09

JustBitetheKnotsOff · 16/05/2025 14:54

Ah. Jen I think you are so indignant because you believe that transgender ideology has NOT already removed single-sex services and facilities from women. But in many places, it has -- my son's sixth form college, for instance, and my daughter's university loos, and as you've heard on this thread, the changing rooms used by the Darlington and the Fife nurses, and the Brighton rape survivors' group.

If you disagree with all of this -- you are saying the same things as Datun.

Incidentally, I've been lurking around FWR for years and I don't ever recall seeing Datun swear. So, well, I guess that's an achievement.

Thanks Justbite.

These days, I actually get more frustrated with the be kinders than I do the misogynists. Because they just don't think.

A bullying, nasty, misogynist being bullying and nasty is expected.

What really takes the bloody biscuit is women being forced into a vulnerable position, stripped of all their protection through something as prosaic as a spot of airy fairy thoughtlessness.

Also, I can't credit Jen with getting me to swear. I'm a natural swearer. Sometimes I even have to take some swearing out. 😁

ScrollingLeaves · 16/05/2025 17:07

jenfw · 16/05/2025 13:45

But are they though? Do you have any stats on this? It's a non issue in my opinion. If men want to attack, they will - and the kind that do this, from my experience, aren't going to go to the trouble (or humiliation) of wearing a dress. This discourse is completely distracting from things that are an actual and ubiquitous threat, ie the incels, the Andrew Tate followers. I've seen horrendous things said about women on Facebook. Threats of violence, r*pe, disgustingly misogynistic comments. I've reported a tonne. None have ever been taken down. I've seen and heard boys my son's age (11), saying the most awful things about girls. My friend's daughter, who is 14, had a private Snapchat video of her (which she sent to a straight boy) passed around the whole of the high school. The real, credible, ubiquitous verifiable threat to women and girls is straight men who are not educated / taught to respect women and girls, usually down to historical, cyclical family attitudes / toxic masculinity. In addition to organisations being institutionally misogynist. Jesus, a serving police officer ended the life of an innocent woman walking home. Something is wrong when an organization that is supposed to represent the pinnacle of morality and law causes harm to women. It's 'not a few men wearing a dress' that is a threat to women and girls. It's the macro structure of society and how it embeds misogyny that is the real problem.

Transwomen are still males and have the same rate of criminal behaviour as ordinary males.

They are males when they join women’s sports and win or collide with or thump females.

They are males when they are in NHS women’s changing rooms asking them when they’ll be getting undressed, or telling them how hot and sweaty they are as they strip, and males when they are stealing their privacy in order to validate their narcissistic claims about themselves.

They are males when they make a video of themselves liquidising a cat for a lover, then go and murder another man, and they continue to be male even when they are reported in the news as being a woman.

They are males when they take over a rape crisis centre then tell female rape victims to reframe their trauma and that they enjoyed the sex.

They are males when they take photos of themselves in the women’s ‘bathrooms’ wanking. Or become head of the girl guides while enjoying and publicising their bondage fetish at the same time. Or doing drag story time to little kids in tight sequins and getting an erection.

They are males, willing to rob a child, and quite possibly sometimes fetishists abusing babies by using them for gratification, often when they take up ‘breastfeeding’ babies after ingesting chemicals.

They are males when having lived as males through the ‘60s and rising through the armed services as a male doctor with most female potential counterparts of those days housewives at home, they get praised by the President for being the first woman admiral in the US navy.

A transwoman is a male when he wins the women’s booker prize and a woman does not.

They are males when they rape someone with ‘her penis’ then put on pink tights.

They are males when they rape on a women’s hospital ward where they have been put but are protected from the ensuing police enquiry by hospital staff who tell the police ‘there were no men here’.

They are males when as ‘women’ they continue to watch their wife serve the food and clear it away when a guest has come to visit them as the well known writer they are; and they keep taking their daughter away from boarding schools where she is happy after haggling at headmistresses because they just have to have the upper hand over all women.

They are males when they are on Woman’s Hour telling everyone that women’s rights to privacy dignity and protection from males, including in various settings affecting their life as biological women, are in fact his special rights too as a special sort of man.

The list is long.

TheOtherRaven · 16/05/2025 16:39

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:09

I certainly don't think women only spaces should be taken away. But having been on the gay scene for such a long time and around trans people, I recognize their need for protection, too. I don't like to wish harm on anyone (at least those who have not done anything to warrant it).

Can you find anyone here who does?

Anyway. Back to Amnesty and the guy who hadn't even read the right report before appearing to discuss it.

Seainasive · 16/05/2025 16:38

Just finished listening. That man was profoundly unimpressive. How did he manage to get to be CEO of anything????

EsmeQuibbles · 16/05/2025 16:37

JazzyJelly · 16/05/2025 16:20

Perhaps he read every third page?

Yes, it can happen.
The Stonewall version of speedreading.

Waitingfordoggo · 16/05/2025 16:33

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:14

I believe in women only spaces AND gender neutral spaces, which would provide support for everyone who needs it.

Then you are a TERF. Congratulations and welcome to the coven.

borntobequiet · 16/05/2025 16:21

jenfw · 16/05/2025 13:51

In addition, what is your stance on intersex people who have both sexual organs?

Oh dear.

JazzyJelly · 16/05/2025 16:21

Apologies, that was in response to:

It's always nice to have people joining us on here.
Now, what were we saying about Woman's Hour, and Amnesty International, and what their CEO, Sacha Deshmukh, ex-Stonewall, had to say about a judgment which he either hasn't read, has got muddled up with a previous judgment, or has read but sadly left out the last 58 pages. Or perhaps he missed the first 58 page
s.

JazzyJelly · 16/05/2025 16:20

Perhaps he read every third page?

SternJoyousBee · 16/05/2025 16:19

Mmmnotsure · 16/05/2025 16:04

Looks like the Woman's Hour episode with Amnesty International has finally been uploaded.

Thank you!

not sure if my blood pressure is up to listening to this episode or not.

NotAtMyAge · 16/05/2025 16:15

jenfw · 16/05/2025 13:51

In addition, what is your stance on intersex people who have both sexual organs?

Now I know what you say can't be taken seriously. 🙄 "People with differences of sexual development" is the accepted modern term for what you call intersex and such people are all either male or female, since their conditions are sex-specific, even if in a small minority of cases tests need to be done to establish the sex.

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 16:10

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:14

I believe in women only spaces AND gender neutral spaces, which would provide support for everyone who needs it.

Brilliant! We are all in agreement. 🙂

Coatsoff42 · 16/05/2025 16:09

Wow, that person is very uncomfortable talking about women and women’s rights!!! What is he doing at amnesty international? He absolutely crumbled on the last two or three questions and they weren’t very complicated.

Mmmnotsure · 16/05/2025 16:04

Looks like the Woman's Hour episode with Amnesty International has finally been uploaded.

EvidenceSpeaksVolumes · 16/05/2025 15:57

@jenfw you said “If men want to attack, they will - and the kind that do this, from my experience, aren't going to go to the trouble (or humiliation) of wearing a dress*

But it is beyond naive to suggest that men who claim to be women/ have trans identities/ have gender dysphoria are always harmless to women and children. You have no way of knowing what they do when you are not around. You do not know what is in their heads. There are men who turn out to be rapists and abusers that no one suspected (openly at least) at the time - men with and without trans identities. Are you personally vouching for every single one?

EVIDENCE ALERT

It seems to be timely to remind people about this paper that found that PAEDOPHILIA was a concerning finding amongst men seeking gender reassignment surgery.

The paper, describing the retrospective analysis of 5 years of referrals in Oxfordshire, found that a “small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role.”

This group numbered 2 out of 38 men referred over just 5 years IN OXFORDSHIRE ALONE.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E/S1758320900012695a.pdf/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire.pdf

So, yes men will go to great lengths including taking hormones and having surgery in order to satisfy their desires, and some of those desires are a threat to women and children.

The trans identifying paedophile men mentioned in this paper were gatekept out of referral to a gender reassignment clinic… at that time. But we have no way of knowing what has happened to them since. Self ID will have only emboldened them. Surgery can be had abroad. Trans ideology lobbies to make it easier to get referrals and GRCs without any psychiatric assessment. The same paper says that many patients had other psychiatric comorbidities and that Axis II disorders (personality disorders) are likely underreported.

Yes it’s not all men, trans or otherwise, but it’s many, too many, and there has been a highly co-ordinated campaign to play on people’s emotions using highly curated sob stories about poor trans identitying men, which have obscured the more complex psychological picture. Amnesty and others are enthusiastically complicit in this.

Mmmnotsure · 16/05/2025 15:52

EsmeQuibbles · 16/05/2025 14:42

Almost as if someone didn't want us to discuss Amnesty International and Women's Hour, and how appalling their (AI) spokesperson was today.

Edited

Yes, this is all very interesting and would make a delightful little thread of its own.

It's always nice to have people joining us on here.

Now, what were we saying about Woman's Hour, and Amnesty International, and what their CEO, Sacha Deshmukh, ex-Stonewall, had to say about a judgment which he either hasn't read, has got muddled up with a previous judgment, or has read but sadly left out the last 58 pages. Or perhaps he missed the first 58 pages.

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2025 15:52

TheOtherRaven · 16/05/2025 14:06

Toxic - people disagree and explain why, threatening the happy security of misinformation and downloaded rightthink.

Yup that's this whole mindset/political group in a nutshell really.

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EsmeQuibbles · 16/05/2025 15:34

So Stonewall declined to comment?
Their man was already speaking for them wearing a differnt hat.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/05/2025 15:30

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:14

I believe in women only spaces AND gender neutral spaces, which would provide support for everyone who needs it.

now Pop over to the trans board on Reddit, tell them that and see what response you get (you’ll be told you’re a transphobe and a bigot)!

mixed sex spaces are not validating so TW don’t want them

MagpiePi · 16/05/2025 15:29

jenfw · Today 15:14
I believe in women only spaces AND gender neutral spaces, which would provide support for everyone who needs it.

And of course, you will be using the gender neutral spaces to provide validation support for the other users.

KnottyAuty · 16/05/2025 15:25

jenfw · 16/05/2025 15:14

I believe in women only spaces AND gender neutral spaces, which would provide support for everyone who needs it.

Why didn’t you say?! Welcome dear TERF! We are all in total agreement with you on that 😘

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