Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

I think the answer is to provide women only and gender neutral toilets / spaces which are found in quite a lot of cities now. Would ensure that everyone is protected.

They are provided and there is no threat of them being withdraw. In addition, most of the 25 women that come to the support group have no problem with trans men as the issue has been discussed. Everyone who attended has experience dv from their partners, who were all straight, male presenting men.

Your experieneces are awful, and we have single sex spaces not just to ensure safety for women such as yourself who have suffered abuse by males, but also to protect the dignity and privacy of sex for all female people; of all ages; all backgrounds and all creeds.

Single sex means single sex...it cannot mean just a few men allowed because then it is no longer single sex. Most female people appreciate the privacy afforded by knowing there will be no men in their changing rooms and toileting facilities etc. In public spaces you have to exclude all men.

So if a fellow survivor needed a single sex environment for counselling and therapy, what do you say to that?

@jenfw I feel it can be quite illustrative to compare the UK to other countries with laws that grant more privileges to males who desire to be women. For example here's one case from Germany:

https://reduxx.info/germany-balding-trans-identified-male-now-demanding-e2500-from-womens-gym-after-being-denied-access-to-showers/

Do you think this is a fair outcome, and if so would you like to see this happening here as well?

As someone who has been sa'd for a sustained period in childhood and also r*ped and now volunteer for a women's sa charity, yes I do. That charity has also set up another arm calle 'trans without abuse', which has received massive support. You can support both. In addition, I don't think you can know anyone about someone by looking at a font on a screen. What has come across through is the utter venom in you responses (as you feel strongly about the issue), so I'm out as these sort of interactions achieve nothing. Have a good day

Oh no!!!!😢

please come back, love and keep scolding educating us.

Yes.

This is the irritating thing. I'm guessing Jen would struggle to agree that you can put a rapist in a woman's prison. In which case, men can be part-time women, but not full-time women. Or something.

These things are never really thought through

Jen's Masters dissertation in full:

I consent to men in women's spaces so all other women must consent too

You're toxic, I'm leaving

Wot about intersex

Gay men have never bothered me

You're toxic, I'm leaving

Let men get their knobs out in the ladies in the name of harmony

You're toxic, I'm leaving

Err...

That's it.

Saying “no” to a trans identifying person is not actively harming them. You have swallowed the hyberbolic nonsense.

This is shaping up to be history's most protracted flounce...

Agreed.

Also, why would disabled women and girls who need intimate care need to have the option to request true single-sex intimate care?

I do also support men being able to request single-sex intimate care.

Here Jen, just try this, I know reading is hard.

I mean it's bloody basic. Why do you think women might want to be in a women only space when they've got their knickers around their ankles, are rinsing out their underwear, or taking off their clothes?

Couldn't bear to listen to Amnesty - lost any respect and my donations (had been a monthly contributor for years) when they phoned me to ask for an increase in my monthly donation 18 years ago when I was about two weeks postpartum. I explained that I was unable to increase donation and they proceeded to lecture me on how many women were being murdered by their partners/husbands and how they needed my money. I explained that I didn't need to hear this as was struggling with breastfeeding and en route to PND. They carried on lecturing me regardless until I was in tears.

When I wrote to them to cancel my donations and tell them exactly what I thought of their tactics, I received a letter telling me that I needed to consider all those women who were vulnerable. Oh the irony!

Since the term 'Queer' has become the lingua franca the trans umbrella has grown to include every Tom, Dick and Harry.

" Genuine" trans people still remain either male or female. Single sex spaces for women are meant for members of the female sex only.....it doesn't matter how cool, queer or lovely your trans friend in the gay club is.

Eh?
Oh! a magpie reference.

I'm not going anywhere just yet, I’ve only just got my popcorn ready, but if you want me to take that spade off you, just hand it over here, girl

Why would you embarrass yourself like this? You are a grown woman, hitting those keys and coming out like a child in a high school playground. You don't agree with me - that's fine, but there is no need to spit venom, sarcasm and childishness out in response.

Haha!!

No one has both functioning organs. No one is the producer of both large and small gametes.

DSDs are sex specific.

Well said @Datun 👏

Nobody in their right mind would willingly choose to be trans.

We agree on one thing. The number of mentally ill fetishists, predators and perverts claiming a trans identity does indeed suggest they're not in their right mind and they shouldn't be given access to naked women and girls as an affirmation therapy.

If you don't like the division, then start working towards third spaces. You won't, of course, and we all know why. But your time emotionally blackmailing women for being "divisive" for not consenting to what you want and swallowing lies and offensive misinformation about sex is over. The solution is third spaces. If you're a feminist looking for harmony, push for those. How many men do you harp at to be welcoming of TW in their spaces? Or do you reserve that for women while claiming not to know what a woman is?

You may think of yourself as a feminist, but you don't know anything about this issue.

You don't know anything about DSDs, you don't know anything about the sex offending rates of men, or men who identify as trans, you seem to have absolutely no clue why women might want a private space when they're taking their clothes off.

I mean it's bloody basic. Why do you think women might want to be in a women only space when they've got their knickers around their ankles, are rinsing out their underwear, or taking off their clothes?

As I said, really try your very hardest, with your eyes tightly shut, to drag your focus off the men for one fucking nanosecond.

So how do you propose to end this 'division' while still, as a feminist, keeping women's, lesbians, gay men's and women with trans identities protections in law? Because obviously you wouldn't want those rights and protections removed, would you?

Off to join you looking for some shiny things girl

We can all go home, jenfw has consented to men in women's single sex spaces on behalf of the other 4 billion women on earth. Issue sorted!