Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

As someone who has been sa'd for a sustained period in childhood and also r*ped and now volunteer for a women's sa charity, yes I do. That charity has also set up another arm calle 'trans without abuse', which has received massive support. You can support both. In addition, I don't think you can know anyone about someone by looking at a font on a screen. What has come across through is the utter venom in you responses (as you feel strongly about the issue), so I'm out as these sort of interactions achieve nothing. Have a good day

Wrong. I've been on the gay scene for nearly 30 years. Met loads of trans people in clubs, etc. Never once felt threatened. Me and all of my female friends though have all experience things - r*pe, childhood sa, dv, gaslighting, misogyny, upskirting, having drinks spiked - none of which were perpetrated by trans but STRAIGHT men.

This thread is very nostalgic - all the tired old gotchas.

No one is saying trans people should be discriminated against you doughnut just that they are not the opposite sex so shouldn’t be in their spaces

But are they though? Do you have any stats on this? It's a non issue in my opinion. If men want to attack, they will - and the kind that do this, from my experience, aren't going to go to the trouble (or humiliation) of wearing a dress. This discourse is completely distracting from things that are an actual and ubiquitous threat, ie the incels, the Andrew Tate followers. I've seen horrendous things said about women on Facebook. Threats of violence, r*pe, disgustingly misogynistic comments. I've reported a tonne. None have ever been taken down. I've seen and heard boys my son's age (11), saying the most awful things about girls. My friend's daughter, who is 14, had a private Snapchat video of her (which she sent to a straight boy) passed around the whole of the high school. The real, credible, ubiquitous verifiable threat to women and girls is straight men who are not educated / taught to respect women and girls, usually down to historical, cyclical family attitudes / toxic masculinity. In addition to organisations being institutionally misogynist. Jesus, a serving police officer ended the life of an innocent woman walking home. Something is wrong when an organization that is supposed to represent the pinnacle of morality and law causes harm to women. It's 'not a few men wearing a dress' that is a threat to women and girls. It's the macro structure of society and how it embeds misogyny that is the real problem.

But are they though? Do you have any stats on this? It's a non issue in my opinion. If men want to attack, they will - and the kind that do this, from my experience, aren't going to go to the trouble (or humiliation) of wearing a dress. This discourse is completely distracting from things that are an actual and ubiquitous threat, ie the incels, the Andrew Tate followers. I've seen horrendous things said about women on Facebook. Threats of violence, r*pe, disgustingly misogynistic comments. I've reported a tonne. None have ever been taken down. I've seen and heard boys my son's age (11), saying the most awful things about girls. My friend's daughter, who is 14, had a private Snapchat video of her (which she sent to a straight boy) passed around the whole of the high school. The real, credible, ubiquitous verifiable threat to women and girls is straight men who are not educated / taught to respect women and girls, usually down to historical, cyclical family attitudes / toxic masculinity. In addition to organisations being institutionally misogynist. Jesus, a serving police officer ended the life of an innocent woman walking home. Something is wrong when an organization that is supposed to represent the pinnacle of morality and law causes harm to women. It's 'not a few men wearing a dress' that is a threat to women and girls. It's the macro structure of society and how it embeds misogyny that is the real problem.

That's not right. I will look it up. That certainly would not happen where I volunteer.

Do you know the case of Sarah Summers? She asked for a support group that was female sex only. Just one, next to the mixed sex, trans and men only.
She was denied group therapy.

I think the answer is to provide women only and gender neutral toilets / spaces which are found in quite a lot of cities now. Would ensure that everyone is protected.

I think the answer is to provide women only and gender neutral toilets / spaces which are found in quite a lot of cities now. Would ensure that everyone is protected.

They are provided and there is no threat of them being withdraw. In addition, most of the 25 women that come to the support group have no problem with trans men as the issue has been discussed. Everyone who attended has experience dv from their partners, who were all straight, male presenting men.

Do you agree that women should have a right to a single sex rape support service?

I think the answer is to provide women only and gender neutral toilets / spaces which are found in quite a lot of cities now. Would ensure that everyone is protected.

As someone who has been sa'd for a sustained period in childhood and also r*ped and now volunteer for a women's sa charity, yes I do. That charity has also set up another arm calle 'trans without abuse', which has received massive support. You can support both. In addition, I don't think you can know anyone about someone by looking at a font on a screen. What has come across through is the utter venom in you responses (as you feel strongly about the issue), so I'm out as these sort of interactions achieve nothing. Have a good day

Why would you embarrass yourself like this? You are a grown woman, hitting those keys and coming out like a child in a high school playground. You don't agree with me - that's fine, but there is no need to spit venom, sarcasm and childishness out in response.

They are provided and there is no threat of them being withdraw. In addition, most of the 25 women that come to the support group have no problem with trans men as the issue has been discussed. Everyone who attended has experience dv from their partners, who were all straight, male presenting men.

Jen has anyone ever said to you that you cannot make laws, or bring in far reaching policies, affecting the entire population, based on your mates?

You do realise that women have different experiences from one another?

The woman at the centre of the Darlington nurses case for instance, was raped for six years by her own father. When she went to get changed in her changing room at work, there was a man getting changed down to his underpants, and she thought she was going to pass out from the fear. Especially as he kept asking her why she wasn't getting undressed.

This woman, in an effort to help justify the position of herself and other nurses has gone onto national media to talk about her terrible childhood sex abuse. Something even her own adult children knew nothing of.

The percentage of women who will suffer sex abuse at the hands of men is huge.

They should not have to have their trauma plastered all over the papers in order for people to understand this.

In order for people to understand that sometimes, when they're vulnerable, or disrobing, or throwing up with morning sickness, or washing out menstruation accidents from their clothes, they bloody well need a space which excludes men.

Irrespective of all the reasons why men think they shouldn't have it.

Drag your eyes off the men for one fucking second.