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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I stuck my head above the parapet

322 replies

RedCrochetedWigFace · 16/05/2025 07:44

So I work for a smallish company but we have a few different branches throughout the country. I think each branch has a least one trans woman. I've no idea if we've any transmen. They don't make as much of a drama and noise if we do.

There is a staff group who are generally well meaning but they've started kicking off about how awful the supreme court ruling is blah blah blah. They are mostly women. I tried respectfully pointing out that no-one has lost any rights and that it's actually protecting women's rights.

I said that I want any trans people to feel comfortable at work and if that's not the case then action absolutely needs to be taken but that the supreme court judgement shouldn't make a difference to that. Someone said what about the "ugly women who look like men" who were dragged out of women's toilets. I said that was an awful thing to call a woman and misogynist. I was accused of avoiding the question. They said that the ruling meant that women who don't look/present as women will also suffer and seemed to think that undermined the argument that no ones rights were being negatively impacted.

I just reiterated that anyone feeling unsafe at work needs support regardless of gender/perceived gender or any other factor. I asked what the group wanted to achieve. They said they want trans people to feel safe at work. I dont think I hid my exasperation.

I'm pretty sure I was respectful throughout. I tried to be.

Now I have a meeting with my manager and HR on Tuesday. I have spoken with ACAS. It's not a formal meeting so I'm not allowed to take anyone in with me.

FFS.

OP posts:
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AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:49

murasaki · 18/05/2025 19:46

OK, jumped the shark for the last time.

I mean 👋🤷

I stuck my head above the parapet
MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/05/2025 19:47

murasaki · 18/05/2025 19:42

But you have never given a coherent explanation as to why those charming chaps are in fact women.

No evidence azure does coherent. Abusive, rude, tantrums, whining, misogyny - all evident in the posts that have't been deleted as far as I can see. But I'm sure there's a reason azure has spent so much time rage dumping on here? 😁

murasaki · 18/05/2025 19:46

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OK, jumped the shark for the last time.

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:45

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potpourree · 18/05/2025 19:43

So many people proved right so many times by one poster in one thread - it's a gift!

GC women couldn't ask for more. Please, keep going! Does Azure want to imagine, for example, whether I'm fat, or disabled? Bet you've got some views on immigrants and neurodiverse people as well? Keep them coming! We want to see the true views of those who oppose feminism.

murasaki · 18/05/2025 19:42

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But you have never given a coherent explanation as to why those charming chaps are in fact women.

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:41

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/05/2025 19:39

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:38

Who gives a crap? Honestly lol

Evidently you do as you keep appearing on here and abusing women 🙄

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:38

Helleofabore · 18/05/2025 19:33

Want to post what was propaganda in that post ? It just seems you have nothing but ad hom comments at the moment.

No

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 19:38

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:38

Who gives a crap? Honestly lol

You, apparently.

murasaki · 18/05/2025 19:38

You have been deleted a lot in this thread.

I would say play the ball not the man, but on this topic maybe it's not the best phrase 🤣

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:38

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 19:35

I have notifications saying you replied to my posts and when I went to see them they had already been deleted. It's not rocket science.

Who gives a crap? Honestly lol

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 19:35

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:30

I have no idea what you're on about lol. Get a life. Checking a message board every five minutes is so 2000s 😂😂😂

I have notifications saying you replied to my posts and when I went to see them they had already been deleted. It's not rocket science.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2025 19:33

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:28

Put her long rant into Chat GPT. Ask it to analyse and counter. The confirmation bias and willingness to eagerly gobble up propaganda is wild lol. Absolutely fascinating.

Want to post what was propaganda in that post ? It just seems you have nothing but ad hom comments at the moment.

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:30

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 19:28

Well you clearly do because you made two replies to my posts which were deemed worthy of deletion within 10 minutes.

I have no idea what you're on about lol. Get a life. Checking a message board every five minutes is so 2000s 😂😂😂

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:28

NeverOneBiscuit · 18/05/2025 09:22

Cakeblanchett

That post was, hands down, one of the very best I’ve ever read on Mumsnet, & I’ve been here on & off for a long time.

The TRAs had to come into this with #NoDebate as there literally is no debate when it comes to the material reality of biological sex.

Their only response to your post would be about essences, feelings, wrong bodies, gender, identity etc. It never stacks up, hence after the usual to & fro of their arguments they end up squealing transphobe, & hope whatever platform/organisation is involved will shut you down.

Put her long rant into Chat GPT. Ask it to analyse and counter. The confirmation bias and willingness to eagerly gobble up propaganda is wild lol. Absolutely fascinating.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 19:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well you clearly do because you made two replies to my posts which were deemed worthy of deletion within 10 minutes.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 19:27

Gosh, I appear to have touched a nerve.

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:16

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AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:14

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AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:12

LeftieRightsHoarder · 18/05/2025 09:02

Most orgs are just ignoring the law? Hmmm, let’s see how that turns out for them. Quite an few employers have discovered the financial cost of that recently, what a nasty shock.

Perhaps you could start a crowdfunder for employers who refuse to obey laws protecting women’s rights? I’m sure misogynists everywhere will pile in to that.

It's hilarious how you people insist on peddling the narrative there is some blanket ban on trans people or the law has changed. There isn't. It hasn't.

Not to mention there are no laws barring ANYONE from any toilets. You toilet obsessed moonbeams are so funny.

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 19:09

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MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/05/2025 13:47

AzureCritic · 18/05/2025 04:01

You think this ruling retroactively rewrites history? lol

No, what it does is confirm that everyone who has been following Stonewall law for the last ten years has in fact been breaking the actual law this whole time.

NotAtMyAge · 18/05/2025 13:41

BabaYagasHouse · 18/05/2025 09:37

This post is an exemplar of why I come to MN FWR👌

Me too. The magnificent women on FWR taught me so much back in 2017/8 when the Conservatives were talking about reforming the GRA and I've gone on learning ever since.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/05/2025 12:31

CakeBlanchett · 18/05/2025 06:31

The claim that biological sex is so complex that people who insist on material reality are transphobes is an exercise in intellectual dishonesty. Biological sex is not a vague concept—it is a clear, well-established aspect of human biology determined at conception and expressed through a binary system: male and female. This binary is grounded in anisogamy, the fundamental difference between the two types of gametes in sexually reproducing species—large, immobile eggs produced by females, and small, mobile sperm produced by males. This definition is not up for debate; it is the foundation of sexual reproduction.

From the moment of conception, the chromosomal makeup (XX for females, XY for males) directs a cascade of developmental processes that differentiate the sexes. Embryos initially have both Müllerian and Wolffian ducts, which are precursor structures for the reproductive system. In typical female development (XX), the Müllerian ducts develop into the uterus, fallopian tubes, and upper vagina, while the Wolffian ducts degenerate. In typical male development (XY), the presence of the SRY gene on the Y chromosome triggers testes formation, which secrete hormones that cause the Wolffian ducts to develop into the epididymis, vas deferens, and seminal vesicles, while the Müllerian ducts degenerate. These are not arbitrary or socially constructed pathways—they are the direct result of genetic instructions shaped by millions of years of evolution.

The existence of Disorders of Sex Development (DSDs) does not negate this binary—it reinforces it. DSDs are rare conditions where normal sexual development is disrupted, but even here, affected individuals are still recognisably male or female. For instance, Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) affects individuals with XY chromosomes (male) who cannot respond to androgens properly, leading to a female-appearing body. This is a case of a male (XY) with an atypical presentation—it is not a third sex.

Similarly, Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) is a condition affecting XX individuals (female) where excess androgen exposure can cause masculinised genitalia, but the individual remains female because they are biologically structured to produce eggs.

Claiming that these rare conditions “prove” sex is a spectrum is like claiming that the existence of people born with six fingers means humans do not have ten fingers. DSDs are exceptions within the binary, not evidence against it. The attempt to portray biological sex as “too complex” to define is not a scientific argument—it is an ideological strategy. It is designed to blur the clear, material reality of sex in order to undermine women’s ability to speak about the sex-based oppression they face.

This brings us to the laughable falsehood that the Taliban’s brutal misogyny is somehow disconnected from biological sex. The Taliban’s oppressive rules—forcing women to cover up, restricting their movement, denying them education—are not random cultural quirks. They are systemic methods of controlling female bodies and their reproductive capacity. Women are oppressed because of their sex—their biological role in reproduction—and this is a constant in patriarchal societies worldwide. Biological sex is the very foundation of why women are targeted for control, abuse, and subordination. Denying this is not just ignorance—it is a betrayal of women who suffer because of it.

And the claim that recognising this connection is “racist” is nothing but a bad-faith tactic to silence debate. Criticising the Taliban’s medieval treatment of women is not racism—it is a moral obligation. But calling women “racist” for daring to speak about sex-based oppression is a vile attempt to shame them into silence. In reality, the only bigotry on display here is the deep misogyny of those who would rather defend an authoritarian, woman-hating regime than admit the biological reality of sex. (And yes, I personally know women who actually worked in REWA and similar, at great risk to their lives.)

Finally, the cheap, sneering question, “Why are transphobes always racist?” is a textbook example of smear tactics. It is a lazy ad hominem meant to poison the well and avoid engaging with the argument. But it is also deeply ironic—because the people pushing this view are the ones perpetuating ideological colonisation by denying women worldwide the right to name their own oppression.
Denying the binary nature of sex is not a mark of progress—it is a rejection of basic biology, an erasure of women’s material reality, and a retreat into ideological fantasy. It is not the feminists who are spreading hatred—it is those who would rather gaslight women than allow them to speak the truth.

Poor old Azure. Spends all this time frothing and insulting women on here only to be greeted with this chef's kiss of a post. 😂