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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I stuck my head above the parapet

322 replies

RedCrochetedWigFace · 16/05/2025 07:44

So I work for a smallish company but we have a few different branches throughout the country. I think each branch has a least one trans woman. I've no idea if we've any transmen. They don't make as much of a drama and noise if we do.

There is a staff group who are generally well meaning but they've started kicking off about how awful the supreme court ruling is blah blah blah. They are mostly women. I tried respectfully pointing out that no-one has lost any rights and that it's actually protecting women's rights.

I said that I want any trans people to feel comfortable at work and if that's not the case then action absolutely needs to be taken but that the supreme court judgement shouldn't make a difference to that. Someone said what about the "ugly women who look like men" who were dragged out of women's toilets. I said that was an awful thing to call a woman and misogynist. I was accused of avoiding the question. They said that the ruling meant that women who don't look/present as women will also suffer and seemed to think that undermined the argument that no ones rights were being negatively impacted.

I just reiterated that anyone feeling unsafe at work needs support regardless of gender/perceived gender or any other factor. I asked what the group wanted to achieve. They said they want trans people to feel safe at work. I dont think I hid my exasperation.

I'm pretty sure I was respectful throughout. I tried to be.

Now I have a meeting with my manager and HR on Tuesday. I have spoken with ACAS. It's not a formal meeting so I'm not allowed to take anyone in with me.

FFS.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MrsSkylerWhite · 17/05/2025 13:55

At least one transwoman per branch? Really, what’s the business?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2025 13:54

It’s all they have @murasaki

ZepherinDrouhin · 17/05/2025 13:54

https://sex-matters.org/about-us/

Get advice from Naomi Cunningham's charity, Sex Matters, they'll help you prepare for the meeting.

About us - Sex Matters

https://sex-matters.org/about-us/

murasaki · 17/05/2025 13:53

You haven't posted a single explanation as to why/how transwomen are women.

You're just insulting people randomly.

AzureCritic · 17/05/2025 13:52

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/05/2025 13:50

And (judging by your posts) you're presenting as an emotionally incontinent, anti woman, abusive male. Might want to work on finding some intellectual arguments & social skills if you want to discuss with adults. 😄

I couldn't care less what you think lol, take your sneering and condescending mean girl bullying attitude and do one. You have no power over me.

Transphobia is a movement of narcisstic bullies

rebmacesrevda · 17/05/2025 13:52

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Oh, the irony

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2025 13:51

I guess that’s a no.

AzureCritic · 17/05/2025 13:50

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/05/2025 13:50

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And (judging by your posts) you're presenting as an emotionally incontinent, anti woman, abusive male. Might want to work on finding some intellectual arguments & social skills if you want to discuss with adults. 😄

Thelnebriati · 17/05/2025 13:48

Why do men's toilets have urinals and women's have tampax machines and bins for sanitary products? Its a mystery.

AzureCritic · 17/05/2025 13:47

NotAtMyAge · 16/05/2025 17:13

😂😂😂Thanks, I needed a laugh after listening to the dire CEO of Amnesty on Woman's Hour.

The Supreme Court judgment clarified what the Equality Act actually means by man, woman and sex and confirmed that this has always been the case since it was passed in 2010. It is not possible to challenge this judgment without going through every level of the judicial structure with a specific case. Good luck with that.

Wrong.

No UK Supreme Court judgment has definitively clarified the meanings of "man," "woman," and "sex" in the Equality Act 2010 as universally fixed since 2010 (in fact the judgement made clear that was not their place), and you exaggerate the ruling's finality, as future cases or legislative amendments could reinterpret these terms and you're misrepresenting the judicial process for challenges.

But please tell me more, you expert.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2025 13:44

Do you have any better arguments for why a self selecting group of men should be treated as women @AzureCritic or is that it?

AzureCritic · 17/05/2025 13:42

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Thelnebriati · 17/05/2025 13:42

Look at you pretending that 'keep your conversation at work professional and non contentious' somehow secretly means 'ban trans people from the workplace'!

AzureCritic · 17/05/2025 13:40

Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/05/2025 13:34

i would say your misogyny is never from the surface but it actually is your surface isn’t it

Calling out your ignorance and transphobia is misogynist? Do you ever actually try that nonsense outside of your echo chamber?

RickyBobbysKFC · 17/05/2025 13:40

Not sure if this is helpful OP and I haven’t been able to rtft, but I would raise the point that in light of the clarification of the law, you are hoping that men in the company will ensure that they are welcoming to TW in male facilities.

AzureCritic · 17/05/2025 13:37

Thelnebriati · 17/05/2025 13:20

IDK if this will help but remember you are protected by The Equality Act. It is an offence to harass or victimise you, based on your protected characteristics of belief and sex.

Maybe you could suggest that the workplace should be professional, and in the future personal conversations should avoid issues like politics and religion that could cause distress or arguments.

26 Harassment
(1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if—
(a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and
(b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of—
(i)violating B's dignity, or
(ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26

Are you being serious? This isn't... You can't... There has to be...

Actually. Never mind. I can't wait to see how this all plays out for you guys. Good luck getting an employer to exclude trans people in the first place. Most orgs are just ignoring the screeching transphobes and their wacko demands lol

AzureCritic · 17/05/2025 13:34

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Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/05/2025 13:34

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i would say your misogyny is never from the surface but it actually is your surface isn’t it

AzureCritic · 17/05/2025 13:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thelnebriati · 17/05/2025 13:20

IDK if this will help but remember you are protected by The Equality Act. It is an offence to harass or victimise you, based on your protected characteristics of belief and sex.

Maybe you could suggest that the workplace should be professional, and in the future personal conversations should avoid issues like politics and religion that could cause distress or arguments.

26 Harassment
(1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if—
(a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and
(b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of—
(i)violating B's dignity, or
(ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26

rebmacesrevda · 17/05/2025 13:07

I used to have very short hair, and a gender-neutral work uniform. Sometimes people called me "Sir" and I wasn't remotely offended. I didn't correct them when it happened, because I liked to provide a bit of light amusement for my colleagues, and we'd have a good laugh about it later on.
Funnily enough, people who thought I was male were always very respectful towards me.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 17/05/2025 12:57

Butch lesbians and men with long hair have been being “misgendered” since forever, and until the narrative that “misgendering is literal violence” was invented, they would generally laugh and correct the person, and life would go quietly on.

Source: I’m the wife and mother of long-haired men. We regularly get asked “Table for three, ladies?” by harried waitstaff. No one has ever died - or even cared.

Igmum · 17/05/2025 12:52

Well done for speaking out. You’ve had some great advice on here (yayy Mumsnet) and very good luck in your meeting. I’m keeping my fingers crossed your manager is a sensible Terf.

Again, still not sure why butch lesbian gets misgendered means women can’t have single sex rape shelters. That really isn’t a gotcha.