HoC debated on "Allow transgender people to self-identify their legal gender" - Monday 19 May 2025 at 4:30pm

Thankyou for clarifying.

It's not the government debating it it's the petitions committee. The government will send someone along to respond but this is only the petitions committee and all it does is feedback how people feel about topics. How workable something is. This is going nowhere.

But they want to debate it anyway?

I agree.

Layla Moran is on maternity leave.

I suppose being able to falsify your sex on your death certificate might have implications for organ donation. Although surely tests for compatibility would ensure that wasn't much of a problem?

Statistics on mortality? Too few to affect anything except mortality rates for tp and if they're prone to certain diseases, conditions or other bad outcomes (suicide or murder).

Genealogists will be given a workout, as will future historians and archaeologists.

@FlirtsWithRhinos I agree with your assessment. I don't understand the whole "dignity of dying in your preferred gender" but if that is important to them and doing so doesn't in any way infringe on women's rights then I don't have an objection to it. I suspect that for the vast majority this isn't the main motivator and even were it made into a self-ID system for GRCs (with a cost to defray the administrative aspect) then few would take it up once it was clear it afforded you no access to women's spaces or preferential treatment over and above someone who doesn't have a GRC.

They may feel it's more achievable post SC decision because the scope of what a GRC changes is smaller. If it doesn't give you the legal right to be treated as a woman in all things there are fewer practical reasons to object to self id and it becomes more about who gets to define who.

I absolutely and utterly reject cross sex identity BTW because I do not believe anyone has the right to redefine me as a woman into a member of a mixed sex group based on personality traits I am assumed to have. But unfortunately this point, being as it is a point about women's inner life and agency rather than the wants and social anger of men, tends to woosh over trans-addled activists' and politicians' heads. (Note to monitors: trans addled does not mean trans people are addled, it means TRA's thinking on trans issues is addled)

Well they can't say they haven't been given any chance to put they're side of things, if they don't get anywhere with all these debates will they finally quit their whining do you think? 😒

One interesting aspect of the debates is who turns up

This.

Labour will be putting out the message not to attend I'm sure. There will be Labour MPs who do attend but it's likely to be those who are already head firmly above the parapet.

Id be surprised by the presence of any ministers.

The LDs have been somewhat keen to keep a lid on this, but they keep having bonkers comments slip out from their more crazy members - they didn't want to go near the subject of sex in the Lords the other day.

The SNP have already had their own meltdown over it.

Kemi will no doubt be out to play though.

We believe the government should change legislation to make it easier for trans people of all ages to change their legal gender without an official diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

I note the 'trans people of all ages'. Such determination to corrupt our children. Keep the fuck away from our children.

Thanks for this, really useful to have these collated.

I had a very neutral email back from my liberal democrat MP. I would expect that within the party there are a lot of differing views on this issue. The email that I got talked about "women and trans people". Not a single mention of trans women. I got the impression she's a closet TERF.

I wonder if the soul see-er will have anything to contribute 🤓

There have been a few different Westminster hall debates on gender related issues triggered by petitions over recent years. Links here. These were all discussed in Mumsnet at the time.

One interesting aspect of the debates is who turns up. In debates in 2022//2023 there is fierce argument between the reality based and TA positions.

It was very noticeable in March 2025 virtually NO-ONE from the TA side turned up. The TA position is getting weaker inside Parliament. Even hardcore supporters are not as willing to get involved. This is going to have an impact going forward.

Westminster Hall debates
Legal Recognition of Non-binary Gender Identities
Volume 715: debated on Monday 23 May 2022
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-05-23/debates/040FB4A1-8C3F-4F03-BB10-29FD4A6E24FE/LegalRecognitionOfNon-BinaryGenderIdentities

Debate: Transgender Conversion Therapy - 13th Jun 2022
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-06-13/debates/066BEE43-BF73-4FC2-B740-B789C37232F3/TransgenderConversionTherapy

Debate: Legislative Definition of Sex
Petitions over altering the category of ‘sex’ to mean ‘biological sex’ in the Equality Act 2010
Volume 734: debated on Monday 12 June 2023
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-06-12/debates/F74BD8CC-4807-46F4-AA51-5402B7CFE8F9/LegislativeDefinitionOfSex

Gender Critical Beliefs: Equality Act 2010
Volume 763: debated on Tuesday 11 March 2025
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2025-03-11/debates/0DC93310-7660-4E07-8FE6-5A4DB4422104/GenderCriticalBeliefsEqualityAct2010

Bonkers as usual.As per the SC ruling a GRC will have no effect to equalities law.

Maybe apart from the fact that an employer will be prevented from saying to Bobina that the GRC you may or may not have, means i can not sack you for coming in to work in a latex pink mini skirt and a fishnet top.

Obviously i am making a joke to illustrate how silly it is.

This was the government response back in March:

The Gender Recognition Act 2004 is a robust piece of legislation, with appropriate checks and balances that reflect the seriousness of changing a person’s legal sex. The Government is committed to modernising, simplifying and reforming the legal gender recognition process to remove indignities for trans people whilst retaining the need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. We believe this strikes the right balance, and the Government will not introduce self-identification as part of these reforms.

The debate is to be in Westminster Hall - not in the HOC if that makes a difference. They are obliged to debate as over 100k votes but Parliament doesn’t have to do anything about it. They state that intention above… interesting they announced today for the debate on the 19th. Sounds like they want a low turnout - extra likely given I couldnt see instructions on how to attend?!

🤦‍♀️

I imagine the likes of Whittome will as well.

Manderleyagain · Today 19:23

“It will be interesting to hear what is said, especially what they say about what a grc actually does, ie what it provides to the holder.”

Yes, won’t it. I might not be able to watch it live, but I’m sure there will be women noting and publishing exactly who said what (although if only the LD’s and the Greens turn up it won’t be much of a surprise 😆)

It will be interesting to hear what is said, especially what they say about what a grc actually does, ie what it provides to the holder.

For the time being there's no real danger of self id being brought in, but it's worth watching to find out who says what.

I remember that first Westminster Hall debate back in 2018ish when the only speaker against self id was David TC Davies, and mp after mp gushed about self id. So much has changed.

Given they’ve referenced the completely unrecognised ‘legal gender’ I’m not sure it’s a really thought-through strategy