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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

HoC debated on "Allow transgender people to self-identify their legal gender" - Monday 19 May 2025 at 4:30pm

139 replies

IwantToRetire · 15/05/2025 18:21

For some reasons the House of Commons Petitions Committee have not listed this on the official web site of forthcoming Westminister Hall debates.

But seem to think a short tweet is enough notice! https://x.com/HoCpetitions/status/1922663793403855330

Again haven't listed petition url but can be found on https://petition.parliament.uk

And should be available to watch via https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Guide

Just in case anyone wants to lobby their MP to attend.

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Retiredfromthere · 19/05/2025 21:11

With (no) apologies to Dr Roz Savage (MP) for tweaking her speech ...

Imagine waking up tomorrow exactly as you are—same body, same mind—but the world is treating you as somebody that you are not. They call you by the wrong name (cis woman instead of woman). They dismiss what you say when you say that the winner of the woman of the year award is male, or the person who beat your sporty daughter in the final was a boy, or the person in the bed next to your mum in the hospital is exposing his penis because they do not see beyond the gender issue. That is the daily experience of many trans people women in the UK. If you complain you are called a bigot.

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 20:38

Labour leadership do not care about gender stuff. It is not that they love reality, it is just they see no benefit in pushing the gender line when most of the public disagree and they are terrified of giving openings to Farage. Plus some of them definitely know women exist like the Lord High Chancellor.

Well as I bothered to quote what the Labour representative had said I think you are wrong.

And the overall impact of high profile trans campaigns means that the potential improvement on sex based rights will be whittled down.

And most worrying Lady Falkner will be gone in a few months.

And although many in the debate today wanted clear guidelines as sooon as possible they also want the consultation period extended.

No doubt to ensure that as many as possible pro trans groups are consulted.

With no doubt on one women's sex based rights group being consulted.

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lcakethereforeIam · 19/05/2025 20:20

Well, all the best to them on the birth of their sprog. I hope it went well for the mother.

JanesLittleGirl · 19/05/2025 20:16

OldCrone · 19/05/2025 20:03

Is Rosy male or female?

I think Rosy must be a pan as Layla is pansexual. Will the baby be a saucepan or a frying pan?

fromorbit · 19/05/2025 20:14

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 19:51

So what happens now?

I dont trust Labour to renege on them saying they wont bring in self id in the near future.

But I think in the immediate future the EHRC will continue to be under attack, and that there will be mass responses to the consultation re future guidelines post Supremem Court ruling.

If it if anything like the consultation re self id some years ago now, the majority of responses will be pro trans rights. These were only disregarded as they seemed to much like copy and paste responses and so were disregarded. And although fewer from those supporting women's sex based rights, they were taken as reflecting attitudes.

(Sorry this is just to illustrates what the process could be, not trying to say this is about self id. The consultation that should have started today is on how to implement the Supreme Court ruling, ie not just toilets but every thing else.)

I think there will be high level briefings about how trans people are going to be discriminated against, so that even obvious guidelines re sex based rights will be portrayed as anti trans.

ie this consultation will be used to water down as much as possible the logical outcomes of the Supremem Court ruling.

And to try and make out that Baroness Falkner (Chair of EHRC) is not fit to carry out the consultation because she is biased (in favour of sex based rights). Prior to the Court ruling she had already recommended that the GRA be disapplied to the EA which is more radical than the Supreme Court ruling.

Labour leadership do not care about gender stuff. It is not that they love reality, it is just they see no benefit in pushing the gender line when most of the public disagree and they are terrified of giving openings to Farage. Plus some of them definitely know women exist like the Lord High Chancellor.

Falkner is still head of the EHRC I don't think they are going to water down what they will say despite all the nonsense they will receive. The ruling is clear. Biology exists. Labour are not going to pass a bill to change anything.

The TAs main hope is the conversion therapy bill, but I don't think it will fix gender nonsense into law. If it ever happens.

fromorbit · 19/05/2025 20:05

Hilarious line.

Dr Roz Savage

I will end this speech with a simple reflection. There are, as far as I am aware, no trans MPs in this Chamber, but we all have trans constituents, and we all have the capacity to imagine. Imagine waking up tomorrow exactly as you are—same body, same mind—but the world is treating you as somebody that you are not. They call you by the wrong name. They dismiss what you say because they do not see beyond the gender issue. That is the daily experience of many trans people in the UK.

If only Jamie Wallis was still an MP he could have shared his knowledge of the difficulties of being trans with everyone in the debate. He spoke on this topic before when he was an MP. Wonder what he is up to nowadays... oh there is an entire thread about him right NOW. Seems he is in court again, but that never happens.

OldCrone · 19/05/2025 20:03

GreenwichPips · 19/05/2025 19:33

Who is the birth mother? Layla Moran or her partner, Rosy? Layla is described as taking “parental leave”: www.libdemvoice.org/congratulations-to-layla-and-rosy-on-the-birth-of-their-baby-77500.html

Is Rosy male or female?

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 19:51

So what happens now?

I dont trust Labour to renege on them saying they wont bring in self id in the near future.

But I think in the immediate future the EHRC will continue to be under attack, and that there will be mass responses to the consultation re future guidelines post Supremem Court ruling.

If it if anything like the consultation re self id some years ago now, the majority of responses will be pro trans rights. These were only disregarded as they seemed to much like copy and paste responses and so were disregarded. And although fewer from those supporting women's sex based rights, they were taken as reflecting attitudes.

(Sorry this is just to illustrates what the process could be, not trying to say this is about self id. The consultation that should have started today is on how to implement the Supreme Court ruling, ie not just toilets but every thing else.)

I think there will be high level briefings about how trans people are going to be discriminated against, so that even obvious guidelines re sex based rights will be portrayed as anti trans.

ie this consultation will be used to water down as much as possible the logical outcomes of the Supremem Court ruling.

And to try and make out that Baroness Falkner (Chair of EHRC) is not fit to carry out the consultation because she is biased (in favour of sex based rights). Prior to the Court ruling she had already recommended that the GRA be disapplied to the EA which is more radical than the Supreme Court ruling.

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fromorbit · 19/05/2025 19:46

Hansard has starting putting up the transcript. Not complete at this point.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2025-05-19/debates/2801067E-044C-4628-A022-FC405ABBA9DA/GenderSelf-Identification

HappyNewTaxYear · 19/05/2025 19:45

DuchessofReality · 19/05/2025 16:46

I don't know who is speaking now. Female 'cis woman'. Summary - trans people's voices derserve to be heard. Medical diagnosis is very expensive.

That’s Roz Savage MP

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 19/05/2025 19:38

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 18:54

Chair winding up.

Too much made of conflict between women's rights and trans rights.

Trans people are a tiny % of the country.

Vote taken.

Everyone in favour of the petition. ie self id.

So what happens now?

GreenwichPips · 19/05/2025 19:33

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 19:18

No it is transpregancy - another break through for trans rights!

Who is the birth mother? Layla Moran or her partner, Rosy? Layla is described as taking “parental leave”: www.libdemvoice.org/congratulations-to-layla-and-rosy-on-the-birth-of-their-baby-77500.html

Bluebootsgreenboots · 19/05/2025 19:29

That is so depressing. I’m getting on to my MP toot sweet.

fromorbit · 19/05/2025 19:19

Tracy Gilbert, MP Edinburgh North & Leith is part of Labour Women's Declaration

Rosie had something better to do to help women, but caught up after and is not impressed.

Rosie Duffield MP
https://x.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1924519837922996258

You think you've heard everything batshit about self-id/sex/gender? Then listen back to the debate in Westminster Hall that's happening now. Some MPs are suggesting that nobody should have to list their biological sex on passports/driving licences or birth certificates.../1

Because there is "no magical way of ascertaining someone's biological sex". Another saying she finds the Government's "need for that data is confusing and incomprehensible and poses a 'danger' and a 'breach of privacy'. These are elected legislators, speaking in Parliament.../2

Ian Liles OBE
I pity you having to listen to such buffoonery.

Rosie Duffield MP

Watching in my office having just held a meeting on birth trauma - the kind that happens to those pesky biological women who give birth!

https://x.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1924519837922996258

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 19:18

borntobequiet · 19/05/2025 19:02

That’s irony in action.

No it is transpregancy - another break through for trans rights!

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borntobequiet · 19/05/2025 19:02

PermanentTemporary · 17/05/2025 08:34

Layla Moran is on maternity leave.

That’s irony in action.

lcakethereforeIam · 19/05/2025 18:56

From what I saw of it only the speakers who could be labelled GC gave any consideration to the rights of women and girls.

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 18:54

Chair winding up.

Too much made of conflict between women's rights and trans rights.

Trans people are a tiny % of the country.

Vote taken.

Everyone in favour of the petition. ie self id.

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lcakethereforeIam · 19/05/2025 18:53

I've took against her 😠

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 18:50

Labour doesn't believe in self id!!

Needs to be a medical process.

Need to see through review following Cass Report.

Implement recomendations of Cass Review.

Will bring in conversion practices ban to protect trans people.

Government committed to single sex spaces but also committed to providing services to trans people.

UK has gone from No 1 on Rainbow map to 22.

Will improve hate crime laws

------
MP with purple scarf obviously has appointed herself as spokesperon for the trans community. Keeps interrupting.

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KnottyAuty · 19/05/2025 18:44

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 16:47

I may stop listening.

I just think it is going to be 100% trans people are the most discriminated against in the world.

It is cruel to ask them to go through an invasive medical process. They should just be able to self identify.

Wonder how they propose this happens. You just send for a certificate. Print if off from the internet.

DIY certificate? One of those nice colouring in sheets?

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 18:42

Says Labour is committed to looking at gender recognition reform

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lcakethereforeIam · 19/05/2025 18:42

I admit I kept skipping out. It's terribly one sided, tedious and repetitive.

IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 18:39

Sorry because only half listening.

Who is speaking now. (wearing red)

Is she speaking for the Government.

It sounds like she is.

Yes, talking about consultation period re Supreme Court.

Hadn't realised that whatever final guidelines post court ruling have to be agreed in Parliament??

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IwantToRetire · 19/05/2025 18:37

That's Tracy Gilbert. Labour, not SNP. We need more like her!

Well almost as shocked as if she had been SNP!

But so glad for her words.

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