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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please help me define 'wokeism'

79 replies

BlessingKalmly · 14/05/2025 21:05

This isn't a thread for making jokes, or at least that isn't my intention...

I just can't seem to totally pinpoint the definition, so that is comprehensive...

What is woke?

OP posts:
parietal · 14/05/2025 22:09

I think it is not a single ideology, and the term 'wokeism' would really only be used by people who disagree with it.

the starting point is the idea that there are systematic biases in society - bias against people from certain races / groups, and biases against women and against disabled people. these come out both in explicit behaviour (racism, misogyny etc) but also in implicit decision making (manager hires a white male without considering the better candidate who is a black female, but doesn't realize he is being biased). The final claim is that if people are aware of these biases, then we are better able to counteract them and work towards a fairer society.

All those ideas have a solid evidence base in economics / psychology / sociology with plenty of evidence to show that these biases exist and impact on real world outcomes (hiring people etc).

However, there are some challenging ideas which arise, particularly when crappy 'training companies' start coming in to try to train people to be less biased but do it in a dumb way that can make people more resentful and more biased. there can also be a tendency to focus only on certain groups and ignore other groups who are also disadvantaged. This again makes people feel things are unfair. For example, in the UK, social class has historically had a very strong influence on social outcomes and it could be argued that working-class people face systematic biases and should also be supported.

I don't think your claim that 'feeling trump logic' has anything to do with it - in fact, the logical careful choice is to work to reduce bias in decision making.

and the idea that 'identity trumps merit' again should never come into it, but i can see why things sometimes look that way.

can I ask - why are you trying to define 'wokeism'? - it is not one thing, and that term is often not a helpful one.

BlackForestCake · 14/05/2025 22:04

Wokery is superficially pseudo-radical rhetoric but which, in contrast to the genuine left, aims not to build solidarity between people at the bottom of society, but to set them against each other. That is why it is promoted by banks and corporations.

BlessingKalmly · 14/05/2025 21:54

Yes I agree... I'm looking to define it deeper than this..

it's an ideology, with what beliefs?

That the 'scale of oppression' is the most important measurement in society?
That feelings trump logic?
That individual identity is more important than personal merit?

I have all these itty bitty ideas that I can't seem to piece together in one coherent definition

OP posts:
CassOle · 14/05/2025 21:30

I think that the meaning has changed over time. IIRC, it started as a US term for someone who was 'awake' to the systematic racism in the US. It has morphed to become a shorthand term to mean someone who is 'progressive left' and believes all the right things to be OTRSOH. It can be used dismissively and as an insult, so I think it is falling out of favour with some.