Does Mental Health need to be higher on the agenda?

@Seethlaw I can relate to that all the way to adulthood, but for me it was more to do with growing up in a household/society where it sucked to be female and I felt more powerful /safer in trousers than a dress.

I know it's different for you, but I put that down to negative gender stereotyping - the expectations on me as a girl/woman and the increased danger that I faced.

It took until I had children before I fully embraced being a woman, because that was what made me really appreciate my body for what it could do and be.

In terms of gender expectations, I'm still very manly!

Oh yeah, I had years of therapy to untangle all of that.

When I was 6, i had short hair and was sometimes mistaken for a boy. When that happened, I felt a sense of elation, of rightness, of being seen for what I truly was. And when people were corrected, I wailed inside, "Noooo, why are you telling them I'm a girl when they had it right?? I'm a boy!"

I am no expert on neuro-diversity, but I will say that anyone who does not feel happy and accepted probably needs some mental health support to help them accept that they are different and their experiences might be different (and worse) than the experiences others have. They probably also need something (MH support or something else) to assist them in navigating a world which is neuro-typical.

@Seethlaw I hope you've been able to explore all the feelings around the emotional abuse of your mother with an exploratory therapist.

What do you remember from being 6 that made you trans in your eyes?

I have no idea. I know it's nothing to do with not wanting to have a female body or anything of the sort. And I already had it at age 6. But my mother was heavily emotionally abusive, so who knows what she might have done when I was a baby or a tiny kid?

YOU BET!!! I'd be all over it. I'd even take a brain surgery or something, no problem.

I don't want to be trans; I just am, and I'm trying to limit the discomfort of it, that's all.

@JamieCannister I really like Az Hakeem's work and am very on board on treating the different groups that identify as 'trans' in different ways - you identify several of these groups.

Only some of these groups require mental health support - those dealing with trauma for instance.

Neurodiverse individuals are looking for belonging and acceptance, and whilst they have a higher level of mental health support needs, I don't think it's automatic. I think their current identifying as queer or trans has been to try and find acceptance in school and university groups. I think when this has become less popular, they will not adopt it in the same numbers.

@Seethlaw Is your dysmorphia rooted in trauma?

If there was a medication which cured or alleviated the symptoms of dysphoria and allowed trans people to live comfortably as the sex they are, would you want to take it?

The obvious difference here is that "treatment" for homosexuality is now considered to be a human rights abuse, whereas when it comes to gender dysphoria it is trans people themselves who are demanding "treatment" and claiming that lack of access to it is an abuse of their human rights.

Completely agree. I'm very worried about the emphasis on MH now in schools, including very questionable external companies going into schools and making huge amounts of money to 'treat' a problem that they have a vested interest in maintaining.

I don't think it's at all a coincidence that these companies also preach gender woo.

I have given a very different answer to you, which I stand by.

But I do also agree that part of MH support should be "stop f-ing wallowing, "man"-up - only you can decide what life you want and only you can make it happen."

For a long time we were not allowed to say it is a mental health issue on here, I was deleted for it under a previous user name. It’s all part of the no debate and you really can’t discuss it clearly without bringing mental health into it.

100%.

IMHO we have to accept that prison onset gender dysphoria, and other dishonest predators claiming to be trans, is real. They deserve a combination of punishment and mental health support.

Then you have the autogynephiles and transvestic fetishists (two separate things I believe - see Dr Az Haseem, sic(?)). IMHO these people need to keep their paraphilias in the privacy of their own homes, and if they can;t they need punishment or mental health support. I do not consent to playing a part in a stranger's paraphilia, ever.

Then you have those who trauma, gender dysphoria/morphia, neuro-diversity, mental illness, etc etc causes them to become trans. These people clearly need MH support.

I also genuinely believe that if MH support was of a good quality and easily available when MH problems first revealed themselves there would be MANY MANY fewer people coming out as trans in the first place.

Gender Dysphoria was listed in the DSM 4 as a mental illness under Gender Identity Disorder - however transactivists got it re-classified in DSM -5 as something 'causing distress that requires medical intervention' rather than a mental illness- removing the mental health element - I think that the DSM has been corrupted by big pharma money.

Body integrity identity disorder (BIID) is a mental health condition that is similar - where someone feels that a limb or healthy body part isn't part of your body, and while treating it doctors do not cut off healthy limbs. To go along with a mental health problem and treat it as a physical problem is so recklace and foolhardy.

Kelly J Keen does a good summery of Domenico Di Ceglie the psychiatrist who first started treating patients as literally the opposit sex in 'treatment' for gender dysphoria - he only had 4 patients in his whole career as it was very rare at the time - the woman he based his treatment on had a lot of problems -her mother was in an abusive relationship and there were other issues.
One of 4 of his patients desisted but his airy-fairy, romantic concept of 'genered souls' solution was to setup GIDS, and 'go along' with the delusion.

I think that we need to re-set psychiatry to a more grounded sex based reality, they've badly let down their patients.

TBH, I don't think doctors know how to cure most mental illnesses, and even when they do, the resources are not available to actually do it.

I have a doctor friend who retrained about 20 years ago as a psychiatrist, and I recall her complaining not long after she qualified about the decisions being made on mental health funding - the money was all essentially going into short term CBT, with almost nothing given to support serious/complex cases. If you needed help for more than 6 weeks, there wouldn't be much and the waiting lists would be long.

Fast forward to now and she was absolutely right, I have a DD with serious mental health problems and in 5 years the amount of useful support we've had from the NHS has been minimal. Most other parents I know say the same. And if your child has autism co-morbid with their mental health issues (which of course we know many young transitioned do), well, forget it. 😡

For those young trans people at least, decent mental health support would be life changing, but I can't see much chance of it being provided in the NHS as it currently stands and Labour do not sound like they're going to do much to improve that unfortunately.

@Ohfuckrucksack

"I think the thing that needs to change in society is gender stereotyping. That is what is causing this issue. That and good old homophobia."

Not always. Not in my case, for example.

I think Mental health has already been expanded further than is helpful.

I think life is tricky and we all have to learn to live with difficult feelings and go through difficult experiences. This is how we grow and develop emotional coping skills.

I would not count 'feeling uncomfortable in your body' as a mental illness. I think it is a normal part of growing up that you learn to cope with.

I think the thing that needs to change in society is gender stereotyping. That is what is causing this issue. That and good old homophobia.

Loads of trans people (myself included) have mental health comorbidities and are treated for them. There's no stigma around mental health in the trans community.

Also, the doctors don't know how to treat body dysphoria. I've never heard of anyone managing to cure body dysphoria with talk or medicine therapy. I don't know about AGP, but I suspect it's the same.

Their argument would be “being gay used to be seen as a mental illness.” In other words, they do not believe they are mentally ill, just finding their true selves.