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Original poster

An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them.

966 replies

Another2Cats · 12/05/2025 19:49

This is not a thread about a thread, but recently there was a thread about the Womens Institute announcement that they would not be implementing the SC ruling anytime soon.

I was reading the thread at the time and, entirely jokingly, I suggested to my DH that he should apply to join the WI and see what they say.

So he did just that (he totally gets the GC point of view) and I posted about this at the time:

Another2Cats · 08/05/2025 19:45

I just got my DH to send an email to them:

Hello,

My name is Xxxx (very obviously masculine name). I just read your transgender policy and understand that you accept men.

I am a man and would like to join the local WI group in [xxxx city] (the nearest branch for me is in yyyy [suburb of xxxx city]).

Should I just turn up next Wednesday evening and sign up?

I'm really waiting with bated breath to see what sort of response there is.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330297-womens-institute-announcement?reply=144143149
.

Well, it turns out that they sent a response this lunchtime.

This is their reply (although with contact details redacted):

Good morning,

Thank you for your enquiry. Our policy states that “WI membership is open to all women who live as women, including transgender women.” If you fit within this statement, you will be more than welcome to attend. I am afraid the WI is not open to men.

Kind regards,

[Redacted]

[Name Redacted]
Federation Secretary
[Two cities - well, a city and a town - redacted] Federation of WIs CIO
[Address redacted]
[Telephone number redacted]
Office hours: Tues, Weds, Thurs 9am – 1pm

Please note the new email address – [Redacted]
.

I don't know, is this something that DH should take up with the EHRC now that he has it in writing?

Women’s institute announcement | Mumsnet

Published earlier today.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330297-womens-institute-announcement

OP posts:
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32
lissetteattheRitz · 15/07/2025 17:09

Apologies to Wm Blake obviously

lissetteattheRitz · 15/07/2025 17:08

🎶I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my purse sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
With our Equality Act's sex-based stand.🎶

LittleBitofBread · 15/07/2025 17:05

lissetteattheRitz · 15/07/2025 16:57

I hope you are right - tis worth a try but I fear that the only thing to shift them is legal threat.

Show quote history

I suspect so too, but you're right it's worth a try.

lissetteattheRitz · 15/07/2025 16:57

LittleBitofBread · 15/07/2025 16:43

So would I, but I wonder if a shot across the bows in the form of the OP replying with a few salient points would suffice, before getting into a round of fund-raising and another expensive court case?
Off the top of my head, I think I'd ask:

  • can you define living as a woman and say how you know the OP's DH isn't.
  • can you confirm whether there's been member consultation
  • can you explain how this is not discriminating against biological men who don't live as women
Edited
Show quote history

I hope you are right - tis worth a try but I fear that the only thing to shift them is legal threat.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/07/2025 16:54

There's something really unpleasant about the privileged women running the WI handing over the word woman to a group of men. Dismissing the SC judgment that clarified lesbian rights to same sex attraction / association and women's rights to safety & privacy from men (think women in secure mental health wards, Sandie Peggie & the Darlington nurses, women's sports & girls in changing rooms etc).

The WI have such a long & proud history of empowering and supporting women - yet they're abandoning it in favour of a powerful group of men with a track record of trashing women's organisations, sports and child safeguarding.

What an abandonment of a once proud women's organisation

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 15/07/2025 16:47

I expect that all you need to do to "live as a woman" is to not say "I live as a cis man". And you only have to not say it at that specific moment when you are joining an organisation or accessing a space that is supposedly "for women". The rest of the time you can say what you like, you're living as a woman at the relevant moment and you're in. And it doesn't matter what you do at any time at all.

The legal profession are going to have fun.

RedNine · 15/07/2025 16:46

Can anyone find the WI constitution? I'm not super at finding stuff, the website is (deliberately?) not clear.

LittleBitofBread · 15/07/2025 16:43

lissetteattheRitz · 15/07/2025 16:26

I'd happily donate

Show quote history

So would I, but I wonder if a shot across the bows in the form of the OP replying with a few salient points would suffice, before getting into a round of fund-raising and another expensive court case?
Off the top of my head, I think I'd ask:

  • can you define living as a woman and say how you know the OP's DH isn't.
  • can you confirm whether there's been member consultation
  • can you explain how this is not discriminating against biological men who don't live as women
TWETMIRF · 15/07/2025 16:41

The WI had a big stand at an agricultural show I went to yesterday. I didn't go in as wasn't sure I live as a woman enough for them. I was wearing trousers, no make up and have short hair so thought it best not to risk it.

MyPresumablyScrotum · 15/07/2025 16:36

"You wouldn't know this definition of woman, it goes to another school"

Where does the WI get off on thinking it's got a better definition of woman than the Supreme Court's legal definition of woman?

Apollo441 · 15/07/2025 16:35

The Hampstead Ponds might be more straightforward as there are already provisions for transwomen in the men's and mixed ponds.
A better angle with the WI would be that they can't opt out of the provisions of the Equality Act by changing the common meaning of words.

RedNine · 15/07/2025 16:35

OMG! Anyone else saying wait, what?

Shedmistress · 15/07/2025 16:34

You definitely need that checklist of 'living as a woman' so he can determine where he stands on this.

PepeParapluie · 15/07/2025 16:31

Wow. That is quite an update! I’m sure you’re on it already and I’m pointing out the obvious, but if they’re taking a similar line to city of London in the Sex Matters correspondence, I think it’d be worth contacting Sex Matters for help with your case because they could be joined and/ or any strategy and arguments by Sex Matters will be relevant to you.

CriticalCondition · 15/07/2025 16:30

I will happily donate to challenging this.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/07/2025 16:28

I’ve paid £51 to be available as a resource to gendery men

should they not be paying me?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 15/07/2025 16:27

FarriersGirl · 15/07/2025 16:25

I was just about to ask the same question!

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Presumably the captured charity sector have been advised by some of the (generally dismal) lawyers advocating for the removal of women's organisations that this is the way to go?

I wonder whether the WI would be a better case for Sex Matters to challenge rather than the Hampstead womens pond?

Conxis · 15/07/2025 16:27

Your DH needs to write back accepting he is a man but say he wants to check if he’s actually living as a woman. So could they please send him their checklist!

lissetteattheRitz · 15/07/2025 16:26

UnityMofT · 15/07/2025 16:24

In that case, the WI cannot rely on the exemptions in EA2010 for Charities (s193) or Membership Associations (schedule 16), neither of which is overidden by the s158 positive action clause.

Time to crowdfund a legal challenge and make a formal complaint to the Charity Commission that the WI is operating outside its lawful objects and the provisions of its govening documents.

Show quote history

I'd happily donate

FarriersGirl · 15/07/2025 16:25

drspouse · 15/07/2025 16:23

Do they share lawyers with the Corporation of London?

I was just about to ask the same question!

EyesOpening · 15/07/2025 16:25

"An acutely needed sense... of validation with other women"
🙄

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/07/2025 16:25

Women members are offered up as resources to validate men with gender identities.

Fuck off National

potpourree · 15/07/2025 16:24

It's our old friend, the circular definition. If you don't know what that means, it's a definition that is circular.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_definition

Circular definition - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_definition

UnityMofT · 15/07/2025 16:24

Another2Cats · 15/07/2025 16:14

OK, so big update.

The WI are NOT a single sex organisation, apparently.

They are going to be running the same argument that the City of London Council are going with on the Hampstead Ponds.

According to the WI, the organisation "does not purport to establish single sex membership within the meaning of the EqA"

They then go on to say:

"As such, it is free to define “women who have reached the Age of Majority” within its Membership Rules as it pleases, as long as its definition is not discriminatory. As we explain below, the definition “women who live as women, including transgender women” is not discriminatory."

They then go on to say that their membership policy does not discriminate on the grounds of sex or render reassignment and that:

"The Membership Policy does not exclude anyone on these grounds. It allows for the admission of “biological” men as members, as long as they are living as women. It also allows for the admission of people who are not trans, as long as they are living as women."
.

They then go on to say that if that isn't enough then not admitting DH would still be lawful under s158:

"Even if you were subject to some kind of prima facie discrimination by the Membership Policy (which you are not), this would still be lawful, pursuant to the positive action provision of the EqA"

The WI can help TiM through:

"It offers trans women an acutely needed sense of community, solidarity, inclusion and validation with other women, as well as access to practical opportunities that they have not been or felt able to access. It offers a welcoming place where transgender women can connect with other women, socialise and learn together. As far as the Women’s Institute is aware, there is no other similar organisation for trans women that offers this space, and so it is unique. The Women’s Institute offers transgender women ultimate acceptance – a space where they are welcomed as women just as their fellow members are, with no need to justify their presence, and free from prejudice, discrimination and judgement"
.

Interestingly, when they talk about the balancing exercise that is required they only talk about the disadvantage to other men, they never once mention the disadvantage to women who are already members.

There's a lot to unpack at the moment, but this is just the highlights.

In that case, the WI cannot rely on the exemptions in EA2010 for Charities (s193) or Membership Associations (schedule 16), neither of which is overidden by the s158 positive action clause.

Time to crowdfund a legal challenge and make a formal complaint to the Charity Commission that the WI is operating outside its lawful objects and the provisions of its govening documents.