An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them.

This is really interesting to follow. It is a very classy way to make them take a stance one way or the other.

You're forgetting the main rule of all of this, which is heads, men win; tails, women lose.

And interestingly if your a biological woman you cannot join the Freemasons but a trans woman may. Basically as long as you have a penis you’re in. (not sure what happens if you’ve had a sex change though.)

If I've read the Freemasons' policy in England aright, I don't think that is true. A transman could apply for admission. Whether a transwoman could apply for admission is unclear to me.

"3..Applications for admission
A candidate for admission to Freemasonry under UGLE must be a man. Should a person who has undergone gender reassignment and has become a man apply to become a Freemason then his application must be processed in the same way as for any other male candidate.
Any qualified candidate for admission may be proposed for membership of a private lodge in accordance with the provisions in the Rules contained in the Book of Constitutions. No candidate should be subjected to questions about their gender which could make them feel uncomfortable."

Certainly a transman is considered to have actually changed sex.

"4. Continued membership
A Freemason who after initiation ceases to be a man does not cease to be a Freemason. We expect that Freemasons will act with compassion and sensitivity towards their fellow Freemasons."

But a transwoman in this case is not considered to have changed sex - being able to remain a member if a men-only organisation.

So, Freemasons, which is it? Do humans actually change sex or not?

www.ugle.org.uk/gender-reassignment-policy

I'm invested in this! Very interested to hear their response

Interested to see how they respond to you and your husband.

This follows the law as a transwoman is still a man and you can’t have a sex change - so they are still a men only organisation…

the WI can do women and transmen as that is women and women… just not women and transwomen as that is women and some men but not other men…

And interestingly if your a biological woman you cannot join the Freemasons but a trans woman may. Basically as long as you have a penis you’re in. (not sure what happens if you’ve had a sex change though.)

I looked this up about five years ago when Petra joined the WI Federation and was on the front of the wi magazine

the WI need a similar policy but for women

Following your post with interest OP

Just popping in to say well done and thank you to @Another2Cats and Mr Cats.

Probably not the gestures I'm making at the WI.

That sounds rather like discrimination against transmen on the grounds of gender reassignment.

Which they definitely can't do as a mixed-sex organisation. It is indeed impermissible gender reassignment discrimination.

Plus it would also be sex discrimination against the transmen, with the comparator being transwomen.

What happens to the Pip Bunce / Eddie Izard men who have pretend to be a woman days - are they able to attend the WI as they wish or only when performing their women-face act?

Thé WI existed to empower women, to inform them of issues which directly affect women, to instruct them in how to cope with problems and to take up opportunities which only affect women. In my experience it used to be a ‘safe space ‘ for women who might have been suffering from lack of self confidence, loneliness, family burdens, and even abuse. The presence of men, especially disordered men who wish to pretend to be women , would prevent the WI performing those roles effectively. Some men may wish to ‘do the activities’ of learning about womens physical and emotional needs and how to address them, but it is not appropriate, because they are MEN.

i have experienced help and comfort at a difficult time in my life from the WI, and I hope that I was able to be part of a support network there for other women.

I’ve also had to endure the lecture from the TW who was infiltrated into the organisation by an influential member, full of the usual demands for ‘tolerance ‘ (that is, allow me to do whatever I please) ‘acceptance’ (praise me for my actions) and understanding ( only too well, mate).

I bitterly resent what has been done to the organisation I respected and admired.

Tbh the wi are crap at everything that should have a policy, ask them about their anti bullying one. I asked for it a few years ago, it was one sentence that said everyone should be nice to one another.

I paid my subs yesterday, kinda wish I hadn’t now.

To make this simple should he not go back and state that he is a man
the WI will then reject him
he can then claim discrimination because they have said they accept transwomen who are men…

if he focuses on whether he is female enough it misses the point which is that they accept some men (who claim to be women) but reject the honest men (who claim to be men) that is discrimination

Oh the irony in this long messy fight for women’s rights, that these cases will be on the grounds of discrimination against men. FFS! Women can’t have anything can we 🤪😂

bravo your DH - this thread has cheered me up.

"open to all women who live as women"

That sounds rather like discrimination against transmen on the grounds of gender reassignment.

I'm not entirely certain I'm 'living as a woman' either - apart from being a woman who's alive. I tend to sit on one foot rather than crossing my legs, and I don't know how soft my hand movements are (is there some sort of mohs scale?).

I would love to know how many men are actually in the WI already....

But their policy is to admit trans women. That’s the point.
They admit men who claim to be women, but not men who admit they’re men.
It’s illegal discrimination.

Perhaps he could ask how he would know if he was living as a woman , as he lives pretty much as his wife does I expect he would qualify?

According to the email that the OP received, they all do, as long as the men 'live as women'.

I think they mean a branch that has a transwoman in it.

I think he should pursue but not with the volunteers. Referring it to the EHRC, if there is a mechanism, feels like it would be a relatively easy win, and if successful, a mechanism that can be used elsewhere too.

Unless of course they buckle and become mixed sex, which would be a shame and does feel like a not-insubstantial risk.

You’re welcome @Heylittlesongbird we were all in the foothills once, but the good women of FWR will always be here to answer any questions you have.

Irrelevant. The point is not the difference between LARPing and real life. The point here is that the SC has clarified the illegality of the WI including some men but excluding others.

If he wants to take it further (please do!) he should point out that they are illegally discriminating against him by excluding him while including some men.