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Original poster

An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them.

966 replies

Another2Cats · 12/05/2025 19:49

This is not a thread about a thread, but recently there was a thread about the Womens Institute announcement that they would not be implementing the SC ruling anytime soon.

I was reading the thread at the time and, entirely jokingly, I suggested to my DH that he should apply to join the WI and see what they say.

So he did just that (he totally gets the GC point of view) and I posted about this at the time:

Another2Cats · 08/05/2025 19:45

I just got my DH to send an email to them:

Hello,

My name is Xxxx (very obviously masculine name). I just read your transgender policy and understand that you accept men.

I am a man and would like to join the local WI group in [xxxx city] (the nearest branch for me is in yyyy [suburb of xxxx city]).

Should I just turn up next Wednesday evening and sign up?

I'm really waiting with bated breath to see what sort of response there is.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330297-womens-institute-announcement?reply=144143149
.

Well, it turns out that they sent a response this lunchtime.

This is their reply (although with contact details redacted):

Good morning,

Thank you for your enquiry. Our policy states that “WI membership is open to all women who live as women, including transgender women.” If you fit within this statement, you will be more than welcome to attend. I am afraid the WI is not open to men.

Kind regards,

[Redacted]

[Name Redacted]
Federation Secretary
[Two cities - well, a city and a town - redacted] Federation of WIs CIO
[Address redacted]
[Telephone number redacted]
Office hours: Tues, Weds, Thurs 9am – 1pm

Please note the new email address – [Redacted]
.

I don't know, is this something that DH should take up with the EHRC now that he has it in writing?

Women’s institute announcement | Mumsnet

Published earlier today.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330297-womens-institute-announcement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
BoeotianNightmare · 13/05/2025 14:26

@Callipygion "at birth" is none too clever either. The sex of a foetus can be determined via genetic testing in utero.

Callipygion · 13/05/2025 14:21

ArabellaScott · 12/05/2025 20:18

Well, in Scotland, it seems that nonbinaries can join, if they are actually female.

'A person who was assigned female at birth but who identifies as non-binary is able to join the SWI. This is because they fall within our women only exemption as they were assigned female at birth. As mentioned above, The SWI does not ask members to prove their sex when they join.'

'Protected characteristic 9: Sex (except that we are a trans inclusive, woman-only organisation)
We believe we best meet the needs of women by being a women-only charity, led by women. This is part of our constitution. '

I didn't know 'yeah but no but' was a legally protected characteristic.

And of course, men with ladyfeels can join:

'including transgender women furthers our objectives and enriches our membership toensure we are a place for all women to celebrate who they are and influence positive change in their communities'

From the EDI policy:
www.theswi.org.uk/about-us/

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“A person who was assigned female at birth”
That word “assigned” in that sentence makes my blood boil.
You can be assigned a task, but assigned sex? No, sex not “assigned” at all. What a load of bollocks.

UtopiaPlanitia · 13/05/2025 14:12

Having read this thread, I think it’s imperative that more women try to get purportedly single-sex organisations to clarify their stance given the SC judgement.

I’m not a WI member but I very much support women who are and who would like their single-sex organisations to actually be single-sex. I would happily contribute to a crowdjustice fund for men to claim discrimination if they are not allowed to join WI under the current set of rules that allow trans identified men to join. The WI membership rules run counter to the SC judgement for single-sex organisations and if they allow TW then they, legally, must allow all men - the WI must realise that their current sex fudge does not benefit their female members they’re just counting on no-one pulling them up on it.

Annascaul · 13/05/2025 14:08

JamieCannister · 13/05/2025 14:05

A group is either mixed sex or it isn't. That it refuses to allow in all men does nto alter that it is mixed sex not single. Note the binary, there is no spectrum here!

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The point is that they’re claiming to be a single sex organisation, using the premise that trans women are women.
Of course it’s literally mixed sex, but officially they’re still relying on the single sex exemption to exclude (some) men.

JamieCannister · 13/05/2025 14:05

Annascaul · 13/05/2025 13:10

It’s not fully mixed sex, though, as only certain types of men (you know who they are) are included.
Even if they decide to go fully mixed sex, they need to change their name to reflect that.

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A group is either mixed sex or it isn't. That it refuses to allow in all men does nto alter that it is mixed sex not single. Note the binary, there is no spectrum here!

LittleBitofBread · 13/05/2025 13:57

This is funny and also genuinely fascinating. I cannot wait to see how they respond. Thank you OP and OP's DH for doing this.

Chersfrozenface · 13/05/2025 13:50

8 is Topaz on all the illustrations I've seen.

Nice non-binary name, Topaz.

DaughterOfSqualor · 13/05/2025 13:32

NoBinturongsHereMate · 12/05/2025 23:10

"open to all women who live as women"

That sounds rather like discrimination against transmen on the grounds of gender reassignment.

I'm not entirely certain I'm 'living as a woman' either - apart from being a woman who's alive. I tend to sit on one foot rather than crossing my legs, and I don't know how soft my hand movements are (is there some sort of mohs scale?).

A Mohs Scale for the relative softness or hardness of hand movements is EXACTLY what we need! Genius idea. So I'd imagine that when I'm really, really pissed off and gesticulating furiously, I might be approaching an 8 (Beryl - see, it even sounds feminine!).

GlobalCitz · 13/05/2025 13:29

Toooldforthisbollocks · 12/05/2025 19:59

I want them to clarify what “living as a woman” means.

Exactly this

How the devil do you qualify something so ridiculous like this?

If your DH claims to "live as a woman" purely in his head / exclusively on Thursdays / on leap years would he qualify?

DaughterOfSqualor · 13/05/2025 13:18

Stepfordian · 12/05/2025 20:32

The be kind is strong in this one!

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Don't be obtuse! She's saying, 'please be kind... to other women' ! NOT to cosplaying men. I agree actually. Funny though it is to contemplate the idea of a bearded lorry driver called Dave turning up on the doorstep and claiming eligibility by the very act of trying to join the WI, it's just making the lives of the (often elderly) female volunteers miserable. Go to the top, for fucksake.

Annascaul · 13/05/2025 13:10

ThatCyanCat · 13/05/2025 13:02

It is a mixed sex organisation. If that's what they want to be then fine, but they need to be clear and honest that that's what they are so that women who want a women's organisation know this one isn't it.

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It’s not fully mixed sex, though, as only certain types of men (you know who they are) are included.
Even if they decide to go fully mixed sex, they need to change their name to reflect that.

ThatCyanCat · 13/05/2025 13:02

EuclidianGeometryFan · 13/05/2025 12:11

Thank you so much for doing this.
It may have started as a bit of a joke on your DH part, but actually it is extremely serious and I really hope he sees this through to the bitter end.

The WI will either have to become a genuine female-only organisation, or become a mixed-sex organisation.
This has to be taken to court if necessary.

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It is a mixed sex organisation. If that's what they want to be then fine, but they need to be clear and honest that that's what they are so that women who want a women's organisation know this one isn't it.

olivietolivie · 13/05/2025 12:59

This has been a wonderful read. Bravo OP and OPs husband. Not that I’m in anyway nudging anybody towards legal action but I will just mention that there is a short time limit for bringing discrimination claims, and in this scenario the deadline is 6 months less a day from when the discrimination happened. Otherwise the claim is statute barred.

EuclidianGeometryFan · 13/05/2025 12:11

Another2Cats · 13/05/2025 07:49

An update.

Thank you very much for those contacts.

I also did a quick bit of searching and found that there is an official NFWI Complaints Form that is supposed to be filled in and sent to the Membership and Engagement Team so I have also included them as well.

I am very much about going through the proper channels, so they got a duly completed complaints form as well.

DH and I quickly knocked up a letter this morning before he went to work.

The basic gist of the letter was:

I'm a man who is trying to join the WI and got this response about admitting transwomen.

The WI Constitution specifically talks about the purposes and membership relating solely to women.

We may then have nicked a few lines from Akua Reindorf in order to explain why admitting transwomen is discriminatory and unlawful.

The letter then ended up with what he was looking for as an outcome. This was either to accept him as a man or to alter their policy to reflect the law so that he would have to accept that he cannot join.

He ended the letter with:

"...if the matter is not resolved then I will have to commence a discrimination claim in court. Please treat this as a letter before action and I would expect there to be an outcome from this within 28 days."

So, as I said, on my first post, once more I am waiting with bated breath to see what happens.

ps Thank you for mentioning the Charity Commission, I had not thought of them. When I get time they will receive a copy of the correspondence as well as the EHRC.

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Thank you so much for doing this.
It may have started as a bit of a joke on your DH part, but actually it is extremely serious and I really hope he sees this through to the bitter end.

The WI will either have to become a genuine female-only organisation, or become a mixed-sex organisation.
This has to be taken to court if necessary.

SidewaysOtter · 13/05/2025 11:36

TheQuickCat · 12/05/2025 22:01

What are "softer hand movements"?

I think it's when the middle finger is extended slowly rather than as a sharp jab.

Delphin · 13/05/2025 11:13

.

JamieCannister · 13/05/2025 09:10

ThatCyanCat · 13/05/2025 09:05

Your husband is great.

Now he needs to reply saying "Well I've now decided my name is <<feminine version of his name>> and that I'm actually a woman, so can I come now?" As this is quite literally what you have to do to join as a man, it'll be interesting to see how they respond. Maybe include a photo of himself in a wig and makeup. We're going for a Bugs Bunny in drag aesthetic.

So you're suggesting about 3 levels of classiness up from the average TW? [Thinks about F Wallace!]

ThatCyanCat · 13/05/2025 09:05

Your husband is great.

Now he needs to reply saying "Well I've now decided my name is <<feminine version of his name>> and that I'm actually a woman, so can I come now?" As this is quite literally what you have to do to join as a man, it'll be interesting to see how they respond. Maybe include a photo of himself in a wig and makeup. We're going for a Bugs Bunny in drag aesthetic.

ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly · 13/05/2025 08:59

Justme56 · 12/05/2025 20:06

I asked ChatGPT what living as a woman meant and in amongst the answer is this gem:

Body Language

  • Socially conditioned gestures, posture, and movements that are considered “feminine” (e.g., crossing legs when sitting, softer hand movements, smiling more often).

So if I do that thing where I prop my ankle up on my opposite knee and lean back in my chair with my shoulders back, I’m not living as a woman ?

senua · 13/05/2025 08:55

He ended the letter with:
"...if the matter is not resolved then I will have to commence a discrimination claim in court. Please treat this as a letter before action and I would expect there to be an outcome from this within 28 days."
Brava and bravo.

The EHRC interim update said "We aim to provide the updated Code of Practice to the UK Government by the end of June for ministerial approval." I wonder how long the ministers will take. Parliament recesses on 22nd July.

highame · 13/05/2025 08:49

ArabellaScott · 12/05/2025 20:11

Can I join if I identify as a woman 50% of the time?

Is Pippa a member?

JamieCannister · 13/05/2025 08:44

Good on OP's husband and OP.

I think direct action is a good thing. I also think we can sometimes be a bit soft on people. Obviously men should not be turning up and intimidating volunteers, but on the other hand, the public facing volunteers are presumable normal women, not particularly vulnerable women. They are part of an organisation for women, and that - IMHO - gives them a bit of an obligation to know a bit about women and to know and do a bit for women's rights. IMHO. We all - if we have the health and a half decent brain - got a moral obligation to do the right thing sometimes and not simply say "above my paygrade, I know nothing about women's rights or the rules of the Women's Institute that I represent".

I would regard the following as acceptable / good... but maybe I am wrong.

Man (dressed as man, unshaven) turns up at WI meeting, asks to speak to the branch leader. Announces that he has heard that the WI is mixed sex as they allow in men who live as women, and that the WI therefore cannot discriminate against other men. Besides, as a femine man who loves Jane Austen, Abba, Alanis Morrissette and needlework he lives as a woman more than his wife does. Says that he does not wish to cause any trouble and is leaving now, but here are my contact details, and if he doesn't hear anything he will assume it's fine and be at next month's meeting. Bye!

lifeturnsonadime · 13/05/2025 08:41

Also following with interest. Well done to your DP.

borntobequiet · 13/05/2025 08:28

Canibebovered · 13/05/2025 07:59

And interestingly if your a biological woman you cannot join the Freemasons but a trans woman may. Basically as long as you have a penis you’re in. (not sure what happens if you’ve had a sex change though.)

I looked this up about five years ago when Petra joined the WI Federation and was on the front of the wi magazine

the WI need a similar policy but for women

Following your post with interest OP

Nice to know that a transwoman can be both a member of the WI (at present, according to them) and a Freemason. Most marginalised, eh? Deary me.

StellaAndCrow · 13/05/2025 08:27

Thank you to you and your husband. More men need to do this.